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  #16  
Old 09-14-2003, 12:46 AM
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Re: Who sits at the right hand of the LORD?

Quote:
Originally posted by Matthew23
Before I take this further, I want to make sure that you know that in your bible, where you see "The LORD" in all caps, that is YHWH (Jehovah). This is something I just learned a while back.

In Psalm 110, we have YHWH inviting someone to sit at His right hand. Do you know who it is?

with love,
matt
Christ?
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  #17  
Old 09-14-2003, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matthew23
If you don't mind, drop her a line or give her a call. Tell her that Matt and Kim said hello. I think she'll remember us. I would be thrilled if you did that! You can give her our email address: mattandkim17@yahoo.com

Yes, St. Peters is nice.
I'll try tomorrow.
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  #18  
Old 09-14-2003, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer
I'll try tomorrow.
Excellent! Thanks!
Quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer
Christ?
Yes! Messiah is the one who sits at the right hand of YHWH (Jehovah).

You believe, as I do, that Messiah IS YHWH. But the difference between what LDS teach and what Christianity has always taught is "who is the Father?"

Christians believe that there is only one G-d whose Name is YHWH (Jehovah). Isaiah 43 and 44 are great scriptures where YHWH declares emphatically that He is the only G-d. He even says in Isaiah 44:6 that "apart from me there is no elohim (g-d)". We believe that Jesus is His Son. Jesus sits at the right hand of YHWH (as in Psalm 110).

How can Jesus be YHWH if His Father is YHWH? This is the question that is difficult to fully comprehend, but John 1:1 tells us this... "in the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was with G-d (YHWH), and the Word was G-d."

Hopefully this will help you understand what I believe to be the only true G-d. This is something my wife and I learned with the help of our dear friends, sister Oviatt and sister Favero, though they may not have realized how much we learned from them. We'll never forget them

sincerely,
matt
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  #19  
Old 09-14-2003, 01:15 AM
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So Christ is God. God the Father, Christ's Father is God. They both are God. Different beings at the same time?
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  #20  
Old 09-14-2003, 01:17 AM
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So do you believe Christ is the Father?
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  #21  
Old 09-14-2003, 01:26 AM
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What is meant by the only God?
Just some questions I've wondered. Things to think about.
What does God mean? Can more then one being be given the title God? If so there is only one God, but to recieve the title you must live up to the name.
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  #22  
Old 09-14-2003, 01:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer
So do you believe Christ is the Father?
No. But together, with the Holy Spirit, they are YHWH.

I've got to hit the sack. Thanks for the quick responses. It's great to be able to read a response just minutes after posting! I'll be on again tomorrow afternoon in between watching football games .

matt
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  #23  
Old 09-14-2003, 01:32 AM
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I need to get to bed too, have a good night. I will probably not be back on until tuesday. Thanks for answering my questions.
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  #24  
Old 09-14-2003, 03:42 AM
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Thumbs up Houston, signing off . . .

Greeting Matthew And Jennifer!

I would like to say thank you for posting - I left tonight about 25 minutes after sunset (I do my best to pay attention to that now) and we had about 1,002 posts or so - now it's like 1,024! I wanted the 1,000th post - but oh well, I had the First!

I may jump in on this convo eventually, but as you all have said, it's Late! Like 3! And my friends are not very good pool players!

Peace! I'll talk to you all soon!
Brad - (Valid Name)
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  #25  
Old 09-15-2003, 05:08 PM
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Hey Matt,
I talked to Sister Oviatt, she has your email address now.
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  #26  
Old 09-15-2003, 05:49 PM
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What makes God, God?
I did some more studying on the nature of God.
There are three members which make up the Godhead: God the Father, God the Son and God the Spirit. If one ceased to exist they would all cease to be God. They need one another to be complete.
-Keeps convenants and shows mercy to those who put their full heart into walking with Him. 1 Kings 8:23
-Is the God of heaven above and upon the earth.
Deuteronomy 4:39
-Holy 1 Samuel 2:2
-there is none other like unto the Lord God, according to the knowledge they have been given. 2 Samuel 7:22
-His righteousness is very high/He is perfect -Psalms 71:19
-There is none like the Lord. He is great. His name is great.
Jer. 10:6
-it is impossible for God to lie Hebrews 6:18
-He cannot be tempted, He cannot tempt anyone James 1:13
-A God of light no darkness in Him Luke 24:39
-If you have seen the Son you have seen the Father also.
John 14:9
-Once Christ was in the form of God, it is not robbery for Him to
say He is equal with God the Father. -Philippians 2:6
-Our vile body will be fashioned like the Lord's (Jesus Christ)
Philippians 3:21
-Christ is the image of God 2 Cor. 44
The verses that say there is no God like Him. Do they refer to the Son of God or God the Father? For there is none like unto the Son of God, as for God the Father, the Son of God is after His image and likeness. So there is no God or person like unto the Son of God. Christ is like unto God the Father.
Christ is after the image and likeness of God, if you see Him you see the Father. Can anyone answer this question. In the Bible does Christ ever say what He says in John 14:9, before His death?
We are created in the image of God, our vile bodies will be changed so it may be like unto the body of Christ. So we all have bodies, but ours is vile and theirs is glorious. What makes ours vile? One thing I do know is Christ has a glorious body of flesh and bone, ours is a body of flesh and blood. Does that mean when we are resurrected our bodies will not need blood? Having no blood does that make someone immortal?
A few more verses to end with.
Romans 8:16-17, heirs of God. Heirs of what? Godhood? All that God has?
Romans 8:29 Who did God foreknow? Whoever He foreknew, will be formed to the image of His Son. Sounds like Christ was given a calling before His life on earth. To be the Savior of the world was not all He was called to do. He also created the earth.... Who are the many brethren? In verse 30 it sounds like Christ was not the only only one to be given a calling/preordained. Them is not singular. Romans you can get pretty deep into it I love deep thinking. One last question for now. God the Father is
powerful among other things. Why did He have His Son do all the work and not just take care of it all Himself? What prevented Him? My guess is He already had an immortal body therefore He could not die.
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  #27  
Old 09-15-2003, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer
Hey Matt,
I talked to Sister Oviatt, she has your email address now.
Excellent! I hope she contacts us soon! Thanks, Jennifer for doing that for me. She did remember us, didn't she?

matt
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  #28  
Old 09-15-2003, 07:57 PM
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Yes Matt,
She did remember you, she even remebered the names of your children. I don't remember the names she said though. She told me she was glad I called she lost your email during the move home. I left a meesage on her machine to call me because I had a message from Matt and Kim, she was hoping for a message which said you were getting baptized.
She was glad though to get a way to get a hold of your family.
She is going to school and working, she souned like she was doing good.
I enjoyed talking to her too, brought make memories from the mission.
Take Care
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  #29  
Old 09-15-2003, 08:57 PM
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There's a lot to look at in your last post. I would like to mention something with regard to some of the scriptures you gave:

YHWH (Jehovah) is the Elohim (G-d) spoken of in 1 Kings 8:23, Deuteronomy 4:39, 2 Samuel 2:2, 2 Samuel 7:22, and Jeremiah 10:6. Therefore, it is YHWH who keeps covenants and shows mercy and is the G-d of heaven and earth. There is none like YHWH. It is the righteousness of YHWH that reaches to the skies. The Name of YHWH is great.

This is the issue that I couldn't get past when talking to Sister Oviatt and Sister Favero. LDS doctrine says that YHWH has a Father (Elohim), but I'm really having trouble finding a basis for that in the scriptures. Before I get too deep into that, I'd like to respond to some of your questions...
Quote:
Jennifer said:The verses that say there is no God like Him. Do they refer to the Son of God or God the Father? For there is none like unto the Son of God, as for God the Father, the Son of God is after His image and likeness. So there is no God or person like unto the Son of God. Christ is like unto God the Father.
Christ is after the image and likeness of God, if you see Him you see the Father. Can anyone answer this question.
All of those verses refer to YHWH (Jehovah). There is no G-d like Him. Christians believe that the Father is YHWH, as is the Son and the Holy Spirit. There is no G-d like YHWH (the Trinity).
Quote:
Jennifer said:
Romans 8:16-17, heirs of God. Heirs of what? Godhood? All that God has?
It says that we will share in His glory, but this doesn't mean that we can become a g-d, I don't think .
Quote:
Jennifer said:
Romans 8:29 Who did God foreknow?
All of those who would become His children, but by the gift of His grace. They are the ones who are justified, the ones who will "share in His glory".
Quote:
Jennifer said:
One last question for now. God the Father is
powerful among other things. Why did He have His Son do all the work and not just take care of it all Himself? What prevented Him? My guess is He already had an immortal body therefore He could not die.
Christians believe that YHWH did not have a body of flesh and bones until Messiah (Immanuel) was born. Since YHWH did not have a body which could be sacrificed, He sent His only begotten Son, to die for us. It was only when Messiah came, that YHWH was in the form of a man (a little lower than the angels {Hebrews 2}, the Word became flesh {John 1:14}). Christians believe that we are brothers with Messiah in the sense that he was made a man like us.

blessings in Messiah,
matt
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  #30  
Old 09-15-2003, 09:14 PM
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Jennifer, I was wondering... how in the world did you find this forum? I mean, what are the chances of me finding someone on the web who knows sister Oviatt for crying out loud? The only thing I can think of is when you served as a missionary somewhere in the St. Louis area, you ran into Brad (ValidName) and he pointed this forum out to you... Am I on the right track? I know he has talked to missionaries in the past. Were you one of them?

sincerely,
matt
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