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**Valid Name** · 10-21-2002, 01:53 AM

Simcah we Will!

Greetings Japheth,

Welcome to the Forum. I do hope your stay suits your needs. We do our best around here. Most here believe in Torah, so the aurgumentative nature seems to disapear.

I believe I am that individual that you speak of. I have not studied Judiasm, yet some beliefs do seem to coincide.

I do not know many aspects of 'normative Jewish', however I do wish to learn. I believe the more aspects of Jewish religion I learn, the better I will become at understanding The Word.

If you know of any specific examples of what you addressed, I would be happy to hear them!

I am sure we will do our best to not be biased around here. More of a 'scientific' approach I believe must be taken, that is, all angles considered.

Peace,
Valid Name

ps, I am also 'Searching'. The board has 'issues' however.

**hyssop** · 10-21-2002, 02:01 AM

Welcome, Japheth

Japheth,

I would like to be the first to welcome you here. Many of us have visited other forums and have experienced the same contention that you've mentioned. I, personally, have not done a lot of posting elsewhere (or even here, for that matter), but I do try to keep up with the various discussions on this forum.

You have piqued my curiosity by stating that you are a "Jewish Believer." Am I to presume that you believe that Yashua (J-sus) is the Messiah and the Prophet that Moses promised would come?

Those of us who moderate this forum are non-Jewish Believers who share your simchat torah: Rejoicing of the Torah. My wife and I made it to the point at which it was time to go before the Beit Din in a Conservative conversion. I, however, felt it necessary to let the rabbi know (after he declared us ready to convert) that we believed that Yashua is the Messiah; I would not lie to the Beit Din and, not knowing exactly what questions I would be asked, I did not want him to be embarrassed before his peers. Needless to say, we suffered heart-wrenching rejection afterward--we loved it there.

We are not chr-stians.

What I mean is that we share very little, theologically, with the chr-stian world. We read the same Brit Chadasha and come up with entirely different interpretations of just what Hashem is accomplishing. Like you, we believe that the world's fundamental flaw is the rejection of Tanach.

I look forward to future discussions with you as we share what Yahweh has given us, and my hope is that we'll both be able to extend the right hand of fellowship to one another after doing so.

**Thummim** · 10-21-2002, 01:16 PM

What is JEWish faith?

Simchat_torah writes;

My theology is radically different from christianity, and is purely Jewish in form. I have studied at a Yeshiva (this is akin to a seminary, except this is the jewish form that is for rabbinical studies - typically it lasts 7 years), I was born with Jewish blood (though not raised jewish, this has only been a journey over the past 7 years or so), and I attend a synagouge (no, not messianic).

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...I find these words present an interesting person to exchange ideas with. I've seen you on other boards in the past. Like you, I like to chat in peace. There is great joy in studing the tanakh. While we both believe in a messiah, mine hasn't come yet. I do not believe that a messiah need come to warn his people of their emanate destruction. His work should be the blessing of his people. Has your messiah already come? There are many ways to be christian without calling oneself a christian. I would imagine that you would concur, having visited past boards as you have, that many who do not consider themselves to be christian, are in fact christians. Doesn't one who builds his faith upon the ideas expressed in the new testement, have to be a christian? To me, I take any faith built upon the NT, to be an extention of christianity. How can one both be a believer in christianity, and at the same time not be a christian? {note, I am not in any way speaking of your own personal faith, which you haven't taught me yet} I look forward to exchanging ideas on how JEWs are to gain the esteem that they should have, in being YHWH's chosen people {noting what christianity teaches about those who reject "Jesus" as the messiah}. As a JEW, you know that christianity has been caustic to JEWs throughout its history. I firmly believe that JEWs are tzadek {righteous} without any need of any adoption of christian ideas. Making "Jesus --> Yeshua --> Yahoshua, etc(s)" a door to JEWish salvation, is also the damning of most of the JEWish people. {most do not use this door} So, how christian, or not christian, is your faith? Do you believe in converting JEWs to some form of christianity, to {save them}? I myself believe that salvation is an act of YHWH's. We obey mitzvot, and YHWH does his best to {save?} us. {from our enemies?}

...I'm really glad that you have decided to use this forum. I'll be listening to what you have to say with great interest.

....Michael

**simchat_torah** · 10-21-2002, 03:11 PM

Shalom Valid Name,

Do not fear, he he he... I wasn't speaking of you.
You are also the individual called searching? Either way, I wasn't addressing you.

I wish I would have left out that aspect of my first post. Now everyone is thinking, "is it me?" lol...

Be at rest all! I'm just here, as I originally stated, for a good time seeking truth in a relaxed atmosphere where people honestly desire to find what's true rather than "be right".

Shalom Hyssop,

The path you have chosen is truly a difficult one. Many many trials require perserverance.
But you don't need me to tell you that! Peace to you on your quest. It is a difficult and lonely one, one that I've traveled as well. However, the blessings of ancient Jewish wisdom and that of a torah based lifestyle are beyond description. Yet, it is difficult for us who were not "indowed" with the grace to be born into it to enter without trials.

Many ask me, "so, do you go to a synagouge to preach about the messiah?" My reply is that I learn more about the messiah in a synagouge than in ch-rch! Who better knows the Moshaich than those who live and breath him on a daily basis? Who is/was Y'shua???
Torah made flesh.
The Jewish people know him intimately. They may not know his name, but they know him, for they live and breath the Torah... and have done so for thousands of years.

No, I go to a synagouge to gain more wisdom, insight, and knowledge of who and what the messiah is. Who am I to tell these people who the messiah is?

So what if christians know his name (or better yet, a badly transliterated and possibly paganized version of it)?
They do not know the messiah. They do not know his essence, they do not know who he is, or what he is.

No, the christians reject, denounce, and call the essence of the messiah meaningless!

Yes, I believe Y'shua is Moshiach ben Yosef, and will prove himself to return as Moshiach ben David, all of which is within the boundaries of normative Judaism.

Hyssop, I too look forward to lengthy discussions of HaShem's glory with you.
Shalom to you.

Shalom Thummim,

"There are many ways to be christian without calling oneself a christian.... that many who do not consider themselves to be christian, are in fact christians."

This is more true than you or I can imagine!

"I firmly believe that JEWs are tzadek {righteous} without any need of any adoption of christian ideas.... Making "Jesus --> Yeshua --> Yahoshua, etc(s)" a door to JEWish salvation, is also the damning of most of the JEWish people."

I agree. Most do not understand why he came. He did not come for those who were torah observant Jews that worshipped HaShem in truth. No, he came to regather those who fell astray from torah and to procaim a message of returning BACK TO TORAH OBSERVANCE. That was Y'shua's message.

"Do you believe in converting JEWs to some form of christianity, to {save them}?"

Not at all. In fact, my idea of salvation may be radically differnt than most have heard presented. But this will come in time. I'm not ready to make a presentation on that yet.

"While we both believe in a messiah, mine hasn't come yet.... Has your messiah already come?"

Interstingly, I'd bet that if you studied Judaism, at least ancient Rabbinical Judaism, you would find that 'your' messiah has come. However, this is up to discussion. As I stated above, Y'shua came to bring those who were led astray from the Torah back to Torah observance. Considering that you were not raised Jewish, nor Torah observant, I would contend that Y'shua came as your messiah. If one ignores the christian commentary, and soley looks at Y'shua's words (through the eyes of Judaism, the context in which he spoke), you will find that he was a true rebbe calling all to perfect Torah observance.

Well, I hope to engage in further discourse with all of you.

Shalom,
Japheth.

**simchat_torah** · 10-21-2002, 08:20 PM

Valid Name,

Dear achi... I am sorry that you thought I was speaking of you.
You have a good heart.

continue seeking achi.

shalom to you,
japheth!

**Valid Name** · 10-21-2002, 09:47 PM

119:165 (KJV)

Greetings Japheth,

No apology Necessary. I often 'screw' things up, and figured this was just another.

Gazunhiet (twice)

.

Peace,
Valid Name

**Thummim** · 10-22-2002, 10:18 AM

...Thanks simchat_torah. Now we have a little insight into what each other believes. Yes I myself can make a case that my messiah has already come. Cyrus is called the messiah and in his time, JEWs were given everlasting salvation. Isa. 45: 17, a verse of text granting such salvation to all JEWs, is in the very same paragraph that Cyrus is named. {Isa. 45:1} Here he is called the messiah in the hebrew text. We also gain our redemption in Isa. 44: 22, 23, Cyrus being named in the same paragraph as this verse as well, in verse 44:27 of the same chapter, the salvation of which YHWH says comes to us by his own will and not ours in Isa. 43: 25. Clearly the messiah has come, as it is written {literally} in these verses of text. The mention of the name of Cyrus makes some strong nails in securing JEWish redemption at this former time. But as you no doubt surmised, what I really wanted to know was whether you believed that "Jesus" was the messiah. I believe that you answered me, unless you have insight that I've yet to gain from you. {I've no doubt that I will learn a lot from conversing with you.} The big question to ask of you is whether you believe that the NT has the authority of the tanakh in defining who is the messiah. I run into a lot of non - christian christians in using the forums. That is why I would define a christian, as one who builds his faith upon the words of the NT.

...I know that I will enjoy exchanging ideas with you. Your JEWish background will help me understand how to cover all JEWs with the name of YHWH. I envision a people being able to say, "my name is GD, what's your name?" That would go a long way towards removing the rebuke of the JEWish people from many mouths that have refused to believe in our righteousness.

....Michael

**simchat_torah** · 10-22-2002, 01:49 PM

"The big question to ask of you is whether you believe that the NT has the authority of the tanakh..."

one word... nope.

The Brit Chadasha (nt) is definately not authoritative as the Torah, or for that matter, the Tanach.

I'm sure this requires much explanation.

To understand this concept, one must first understand Jewish theology. In Jewish theology there are many levels of inspiration. There is no such thing as a "cannon", where a particular book is either inspired or non-inspired. In fact, depending on which sect of Judaism you adhere to, your "cannon" will vary. Allow me to explain further...

In the Jewish understanding, the Torah is the highest level of inspiration as it came directly from the mouth of G-d. It is also an eternal document. Something which pre-eternally existed with HaSHem and will continue to exist for all eternity. Thus the torah is on the highest plane of inspiration. Then, as you go from sect to sect, you will see that there is a variance of what is accepted as "lower levels" of inspiration. Let's use the first century as an example...

The Saducees considered that the Torah was the only inspired work.
The Pharisees accepted the Torah and the Tanach (what we have as the Tenach today) as inspired, and the Torah being above all other writings of the Tenach (at that time, to the pharisees, the Apocrypha was included).
The Essences and Netzarim accepted the Torah, the Tenach (including the apocrypha), the Pseudopigrapha, and various other Apocryphal texts (mostly concerning visions). Again, the Essecens considered the Torah on the highest level of inspiration, and then various other levels for the remainder of what was placed into their "cannon" (for a lack of a better word).

Now, back to the Brit Chadasha....

None of the writers were considering that they were writing documents that would be considered "inspired" (other than possibly Yochanan's writing of revelations). The letters written were not accepted as "cannon" until several hundred years later, let alone "inspired", but rather were writings to particular communities giving them guidelines on how to live a good Torah based faithful lifestyle. Then the individual manuscripts we have today have been altered down through the centuries, and this can plainly been seen as from generation to generation of the Brit Chadasha various textual criticism has taken place, or shall I say obvious changes were made from docutment to document. Then we also have inconsitencies, discreponcies, contradictions, and mistakes that are contained within the documents themselves (possibly as the Greek documents are translations from Aramaic and a few Hebrew). The letters never made the claim themselves to be inspired. And Finally, we have a nt cannon that was put together by the most pagan of all councils.

So, to sum it up, what do we have when we say "brit chadasah" or 'nt'?
A paganized cannon consisting of writings that never claimed to be inspired, were not viewed as inspired by it's recipients, that contain various ovious flaws and ovious textual criticism (changes that were made to the documents down through time), that were written to communities as guidlines to live by based on Torah.

Is my faith based upon the NT????
Absolutely not.
My faith is based upon the Torah. I view the Brit Chadasha through the eyes, or lenses rather, of the Torah. Is the Brit Chadasha inspired? Well, considering the Jewish understanding of levels of inspiration... I can safely say that the original manuscripts written contain inspiration, but it definately does not rest on the level of Torah, OR the Tenach. However, we do not have the original manuscripts. So where does this levae me?
I read the Brit Chadasha with a grain of salt. There is lots and lots of good stuff there. It is all Torah based, and all good for living a Torah based lifestyle. It contains variouis sayings of the Messiah, and a description of his life. However, I would not accept the documents we have today as authoritatitve. Not only that, but our faith should never be based on anything but the Torah, not even the Tenach should be the root of our faith... only the Torah should be our firm foundation.

*** Many will assuredly argue against what I've just said. I'm ready to back up all my claims fully without doubt. I'm not here to offend, but as I was asked my point of view I merely stated it. ***

I hope this answers your questions Thummim about where I stand.

Shalom to you,
Japheth.

**Thummim** · 10-22-2002, 10:53 PM

Whats in a name?

...simchat_torah, surprisingly for me we are near in our beliefs. I look at the collected writings as surrounding the torah like layers surrounding an onion, with the torah being the center and holiest work of all. My onion would put the NT somewhere near Connecticut on an onion grown in Massachusettes. Your view would probably put it at least touching the onion. The Nevi'im {prophets} and Kathuvim {writings} are about equal to me in importance. {with each other} The mishnah and talmud would follow at a much greater distance from the core of the onion. I consider them both to be commentary written to yeild further understanding of the inner books. The core of my faith, that YaHudaH without its fourth letter is the name from which YHWH comes, is torah based. I build this knowledge starting with the very first chapter of Bereshith {Genesis}, with the creation testifing to the glory of the sacred name. {commented on in Ps. 8: 1 and Mal. 4: 2} I pose the question, "why is the sun corrupt in the order of its creation? - you cannot plant the earth before you create the sun {see Deut. 33: 14}" The error is deliberate, but why? Then I point to the proper commentary from the rest of the tanakh. From the following verse of text, I form my insight as to how to reveal the name of YHWH.

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9 And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs.

10 The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth.

11 The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd.

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I set in order the verses of text.

...One shepherd had his hands on this collection of words and sentences, and chose their order to fit their purpose in freeing a people {JEWs} from the oppression that would befall our name. If that shepherd is really YHWH as Eloheem, I'm not sure. But these books span many years in their writing, and still point vividly to Hashem as being the name of YaHudaH. I now must put the words into the proper order to convey the sacred name, and cover a people with this prepared garment. At the beginning, you may think my conjecture is misplaced. But before I finish teaching this faith to you, what had not been reasoned by you as of yet, you will likely considered to have merit. The messiah is to conquer with knowledge. {according to Isaiah, --> Isa. 11: 1 - 10, Isa. 28: 8, Isa. 32: 4, Isa. 33: 6, Isa. 53: 11)} The knowledge to defend the JEWish people must be found in the three books of the tanakh. What other knowledge can the knowledgeable one subdue with? If you are persuaded, it will be because your own knowledge has persuaded you. If you concur with me after reading what I have to say in future conversations, then please help me cover all JEWs with the name of their Eloheem, to give Hashem a weapon to defend his people with. He hasn't had a way of defending JEWs throughout all of the oppressions faced by us {JEWs} since all knowledge of the name {as YaHudaH} was lost. Note, vowel points are a relatively recent addition to the hebrew language. The oldest manuscripts didn't use vowel points, though many things were noted on the pages of ancient texts to convey the meaning of them. Some of these texts can be examined online with an ME {middle east} version of Acrobat Reader. A simple idea like a people bearing the name of their Eloheem has merit. My own handle {Thummim} comes from the hebrew word "tome" meaning to complete. It complete(s) "plural" something that the priests attend. Could it be the name that the temple is built to serve? Baruch Hashem.

....Michael

**simchat_torah** · 10-22-2002, 11:44 PM

Shalom Thummim,

I truly appreciated your allegory of the onion. That placed into more precise words how I view inspired manuscripts.... thank you.

I am curious as to how you derive YaHudaH from Yud Hey Vav Hey. The most ancient biblical text I believe is a portion of a silver scroll (memory fails me if it is Daniel or a Psalm, I believe a psalm) and it contains the tetragrammatron (YHVH) as the name of Elohim.

I too believe that the Messiah will conquer with knowledge. That "conquering" is taking place via Ruach HaKodesh to this day, yet it will not see the fullest light of day until the Millenial Kingdom. It is then that Moshiach ben Dovid will come and rule in power, establishing Widom and Understanding via Torah on the Earth.

I look forward to that day.

Shalom,
Japheth.

**Thummim** · 10-23-2002, 10:05 AM

Linking names for the blessing.

simchat_torah writes;

I am curious as to how you derive YaHudaH from Yud Hey Vav Hey.

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5 But unto the place which YHWH your God shall choose out of all your tribes to put his name there, even unto his habitation shall ye seek, and thither thou shalt come: Deut. 12: 5

...YaHudaH, --> Yawd, he, vav, daleth, hey {five letters} If we choose to circumcise this name, we'd cut out a letter. We'll remove the fourth letter to leave the letters yawd, he, vav, he, or the letters making up the name of YHWH.

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Speak unto Aaron and unto his sons, saying, On this wise ye shall bless the children of Israel, saying unto them,

YHWH bless thee, and keep thee:

YHWH make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

YHWH lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; {through the tribe of YaHudaH} and I will bless them. Nu. 6: 23 - 27

--> Thus they shall link My name with the people of Israel, and I will bless them. Nu. 6: 27 JPS

The blessing comes through the linking of names as I read it. Now look at what Malachi says;

1 And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you.

2 If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith YHWH of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart. Mal. 2: 1, 2

...If you want the blessing, the link to the name of YHWH must be maintained. Give glory to the name of YHWH and its way of carrying the JEWish people.

...Now we read from the Psalms;

24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted. Ps. 89: 24

...Now YHWH promises to put his name into one of the tribes of Israel. Removing the fourth letter from the tribe of YaHudah {Judah} leaves us with the name of YHWH. {link made} A choice is made.

67 Moreover he refused the tabernacle of Joseph, and chose not the tribe of Ephraim:

68 But chose the tribe of Judah, the mount Zion which he loved.

69 And he built his sanctuary like high palaces, like the earth which he hath established for ever. Ps. 78: 67, 68

...I set the text in order so the name of YHWH can be seen, as to follow the textual idea of putting the text in order, which I quoted from the book of Ecclesiastes.

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22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee. Ps. 22: 22

35 And she conceived again, and bare a son: and she said, Now will I praise YHWH: therefore she called his name Judah {YaHudaH}; and left bearing. Gen. 29: 35

Praise Yah = Praise Yah

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...I attempt to assymbol the right verses of text in the right order so we can see the name of YHWH.

...We can also take a more scientific approach to the name of YHWH. What are the odds that four of the five letters in the name of YaHudaH would match the letters used to represent the name of YHWH? ---> 22 to the 4th power or 22 x 22 x 22 x 22 = {234256 to 1} while not astronomical, the odds are significant.

YHW*H --> YHW (d) H --> ; Yawd, he, vav, he {four letters, the name of GD}--> Yawd, he, vav, (daleth) he {five letters, the name of the tribe of Yahudah}

3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel. Ps. 22: 3

...YHWH inhabiting the praises of his people, is the central idea of this faith as I see it. Its all about Hashem and the temple that is built for this name of praise. YHWH is not found in an image {other than that of his people}, but he is found in his name instead.

....Michael

**simchat_torah** · 10-23-2002, 08:10 PM

Yes, HaShem is represented in names... but also places (the temple, ect.), people (Yisra'el, ect.), and many other forms of creation also bear his name. However, the name of any of these individual symbollic representations are not literally his name, but merely a vehicle which expresses a part of His character.

Yehudah is not his name. Yehudah is a tribe. However, Yehudah most certainly does carry the name of the Holy One, Blessed be He.

But if one asked me, what is the name of your G-d?
I would reply "Yud Hey Vav Hey".

Though my G-d does take many forms, names, and expressions, his name (that we know him by) is made abundantly clear.

Yet, I agree, there are mystical applications of the name of g-d. His name is hidden, yet revealed.

Being revealed through hiddeness is a very Kabbalistic concept, and one that requires much maturity and depth of knowledge.

Shalom,
Japheth.

**hyssop** · 10-23-2002, 10:22 PM

What are the odds?

<BLOCKQUOTE>Thummim<HR>...YaHudaH, --> Yawd, he, vav, daleth, hey {five letters} If we choose to circumcise this name, we'd cut out a letter. We'll remove the fourth letter to leave the letters yawd, he, vav, he, or the letters making up the name of YHWH.<HR></blockquote><BLOCKQUOTE>Thummim<HR>...We can also take a more scientific approach to the name of YHWH. What are the odds that four of the five letters in the name of YaHudaH would match the letters used to represent the name of YHWH? ---> 22 to the 4th power or 22 x 22 x 22 x 22 = {234256 to 1} while not astronomical, the odds are significant.

YHW*H --> YHW (d) H --> ; Yawd, he, vav, he {four letters, the name of GD}--> Yawd, he, vav, (daleth) he {five letters, the name of the tribe of Yahudah}<HR></blockquote>What are the odds that four of the five letters in the name of YaHUDaH would match the letters of a conjugation of the verb "to throw (a stone, an arrow)"? What are the odds that two different forms of that very same verb would match two different sets of four of the five letters in the name of YaHUDaH? Would that be ---> 22 to the 8th power or 22 x 22 x 22 x 22 x 22 x 22 x 22 x 22 = {54,875,873,536 to 1}? We're getting closer to astronomical. What is the significance of that?<BLOCKQUOTE>First-letter "circumcision"<HR>Take away the first letter of YaHudaH, --> Yawd, he, vav, daleth, hey {five letters}, and that would leave the letters he, vav, daleth, he, or the letters making up the verb "He threw."

*HWDH --> (y) HWDH --> ; He, vav, daleth, he {four letters, "He threw."}--> (yawd) he, vav, daleth, he {five letters, the name of the tribe of Yahudah}<HR></blockquote><BLOCKQUOTE>Second-letter "circumcision"<HR>Take away the second letter of YaHudaH, --> Yawd, he, vav, daleth, hey {five letters}", and that would leave the letters yawd, vav, daleth, he, or the letters making up the verb "He will throw."

Y*WDH --> Y (h) WDH --> ; Yawd, vav, daleth, he {four letters, "He will throw."}--> Yawd, (he) vav, daleth, he {five letters, the name of the tribe of Yahudah}<HR></blockquote>I'm not trying to be difficult here, but I do have a little problem with your logic. Your other "proofs" are going to have to be far more solid than these to convince me of the huge significance of the four letters, YHWH, appearing in the name of a single tribe of Yisrael.

**Thummim** · 10-24-2002, 12:11 PM

Attached to YHWH.

...simchat_torah, the name of GD is yawd, he, vav, he, {omiting a letter} because of Exodus 20: 7

7 Thou shalt not take the name of YHWH thy God in vain {do not misuse Hashem}; for YHWH will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

...The link is absolute. A letter is withheld. The tanakh is not written by YHWH, but by men who want to be connected to their Eloheem. The priest attaches the name to his people in the appropriate ways. The name of GD must always be separately identified from the name of the tribe of YaHudaH. It is the tribe of YaHudah that in its name holds the entirety of the sacred name. No other name does this. Yah is not YHWH! The author removed the fourth letter from the name of YaHudaH and called what was left, Hashem. Even a child can see that. When a man decided on what the name of his GD would be, he decided to circumcise the name of YaHudaH. He decided that the holy name couldn't be uncircumcised. He removed the fourth letter from the fourth possiston of Hashem, from the fourth son of Jacob, fourth generation from Abraham.

10 Who can count the dust {ofspring} of Jacob, and the number of the fourth part of Israel? {YaHudaH, fourth son of Israel} Let me die the death of the righteous, and let my last end be like his! Nu. 23: 10

Note his end;

21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in (*Judah*) "all holy like priests" shall be holiness unto YHWH of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite {Gen. 38} in the house of YHWH of hosts.

12 And YHWH shall inherit YaHudaH his portion in the holy land, and shall choose Jerusalem again. Zech. 2: 12

....Michael

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