Yeshua: G-d or g-d?

[Thummim]

Not "Jesus!"

...Glori, you need to put Isaiah in the context of its surrounding verses of text. Isa. 43: 10, 11's servant is Cyrus, named in the next chapter of Isaiah. As to the timing of these words, you need only jump a single paragraph to set them in time.

14 Thus saith YHWH, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their nobles, and the Chaldeans, whose cry is in the ships. Isa. 43: 14 {this coincides with Cyrus's reign}

...The text isn't talking about "Jesus". It doesn't even mention the time of the Romans.

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4 Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life.

5 Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;

6 I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth; Isa. 43: 4 - 6

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...These verses of Isa. 43 speak of the gathering of the nations of Israel. Israel is a redeemed people in this time. Their sins are forgiven them. {Isa. 43: 25; Isa. 44: 22, 23} They gather to return to the land of Israel, which they shall occupy for the next 500+ years.

...The kingdom mentioned in Danial 7: 13, is to be posessed by the "JEWish" people, and not "christians". The saints here, are not christians at all. This is a kingdom that exists upon the earth. There is only one holy people. They are mentioned as the "saints" that are given possession of the kingdom {Dan. 8: 24} of the man who understands intrigue {dark sentenses}, by which he gains his throne.

....Michael

[Glori]

Re: Not "Jesus!"

Originally posted by Thummim
...Glori, you need to put Isaiah in the context of its surrounding verses of text. Isa. 43: 10, 11's servant is Cyrus, named in the next chapter of Isaiah. As to the timing of these words, you need only jump a single paragraph to set them in time.

14 Thus saith YHWH, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their nobles, and the Chaldeans, whose cry is in the ships. Isa. 43: 14 {this coincides with Cyrus's reign}

...The text isn't talking about "Jesus". It doesn't even mention the time of the Romans.

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4 Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life.

5 Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;

6 I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth; Isa. 43: 4 - 6

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...These verses of Isa. 43 speak of the gathering of the nations of Israel. Israel is a redeemed people in this time. Their sins are forgiven them. {Isa. 43: 25; Isa. 44: 22, 23} They gather to return to the land of Israel, which they shall occupy for the next 500+ years.

...The kingdom mentioned in Danial 7: 13, is to be posessed by the "JEWish" people, and not "christians". The saints here, are not christians at all. This is a kingdom that exists upon the earth. There is only one holy people. They are mentioned as the "saints" that are given possession of the kingdom {Dan. 8: 24} of the man who understands intrigue {dark sentenses}, by which he gains his throne.

....Michael

Actually I was referring to the fact that Isa.43.10-11 says "before me there was no god formed, and neither will there be after me. I, even I am the Lord, and beside me there is no Saviour". That is not talking about Cyrus. I understand the some cannot find the prophetic meaning of scripture because they only focus on the literal meaning, but in your understanding, who exactly is the "Angel of the Lord's presence" that Isa.63 9 refers to? And who is the "one like unto the Son of man" that Dan.7.13 says "comes to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him, and he is given dominion and glory and a kingdom ?

Glori

[Thummim]

Sons?

Glori writes;

who exactly is the "Angel of the Lord's presence" that Isa.63 9 refers to? And who is the "one like unto the Son of man" that Dan.7.13 says "comes to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him, and he is given dominion and glory and a kingdom ?

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...Do you think that "Jesus" is an angel? The angel of his presence was with YHWH when he took on the Egyptians. YHWH makes his own presence everytime he sends his angel to do his bidding. This angel bears the name of YHWH.

20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. Ex. 23: 20, 21

...This is the angel of YHWH's presence.


13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. Dan. 7: 13, 14

...This kingdom is on the earth. It at first belongs to an evil one. But this one who sits upon the throne of David is to inherit the kingdom.


...Let me pose a question here. A simular idea is used by the author, in Dan. 3: 25. But here we see that the term denotes a "son of GD". You no doubt believe that this also is refering to "Jesus". But the names of the three hebrew boys that are thrown into the ovens, denotes the messiah in the use of their names. Shadrah means "spreading growth", Meshach is "Meshiach" the messiah. And Abednego means "afflicted servant". Now if a son of GD comes to rescue these names of the messiah from the ovens, how can the messiah also be the son of GD? Does he rescue himself, or are we being told that the messiah was among his people, {that refuse to bow to the idol of flesh} when the christians of Europe used their ovens on the name of GD {YaHudaH}? Have the christians burned their own messiah? So the son of GD is not the messiah? The faith of Rome is wrong. The son of man denotes "born of a woman", like David is, and it is a term that is heavily used by Ezekiel. It does not mean messiah or {son of GD}, as all JEWish men are deemed to be.

....Michael

[Glori]

Re: Sons?

[QUOTE by Thummim]
Do you think that "Jesus" is an angel? The angel of his presence was with YHWH when he took on the Egyptians. YHWH makes his own presence everytime he sends his angel to do his bidding. This angel bears the name of YHWH.
20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. Ex. 23: 20, 21

...This is the angel of YHWH's presence.[END QUOTE]


You are correct that YHWAH was the power that the Angel of YHWH's presence conducted when delivering his children from Egypt. The same is true for the ultimate deliverence. Heb.2.9 says Jesus was made "a little lower than the angels" for the suffering of death". Overcoming death was the age old promise and the mission of the angel of G-d's presence, otherwise it would not have required that he first be born of a woman. So in the flesh Jesus was not an angel, but 2 Cor.5.19 says, YHWH was in Christ, reconcilling the world unto HIMSLEF.

Deut.18.18 with John 17.8 "I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren like unto thee, and I will put MY WORDS in his mouth, and he shall speak them to all that I command him", "for I have given them the WORDS WHICH THOU GAVEST ME and they have received them".

Deut.18.16 with Job 33.6-7 & Matt.11.28-30 "According to all that thou desired of the L-rd thy G-d in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying Let me not hear again the voice of the L-rd G-d, neither let me see this great fire any more that I die not"
"Behold I am according to thy wish in G-d's stead, I also am formed out of the clay; my terror shall not make thee afraid, neither shall my hand be heavy upon thee", "come unto me all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon on you and learn of me, for my yoke is easy and my burden is light".

Deut.12.11, 14.23 with John 17.6 "Then there shall be a place which the L-rd your G-d shall choose to cause HIS NAME to dwell there; "thou shall eat before the L-rd the G-d in the place which he shall choose to place HIS NAME". "I have manifested THY NAME unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world".


QUOTE BY MICHAEL]13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. Dan. 7: 13, 14

...This kingdom is on the earth. It at first belongs to an evil one. But this one who sits upon the throne of David is to inherit the kingdom.[END QUOTE]

First, Jesus was both Son of G-d and son of man, thus the statment "one LIke the son of man. You are correct about the kingdom first being evil, and the kingdom still belongs to the evil one, but as Rev.11.15 says, "the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our L-rd and his Christ". Remember that Hos 13.11 says "I gave them a king in my anger, and took him away in my wrath";

[QUOTE BY MICHAEL]...Let me pose a question here. A simular idea is used by the author, in Dan. 3: 25. But here we see that the term denotes a "son of G-D". You no doubt believe that this also is refering to "Jesus". But the names of the three hebrew boys that are thrown into the ovens, denotes the messiah in the use of their names. Shadrah means "spreading growth", Meshach is "Meshiach" the messiah. And Abednego means "afflicted servant". Now if a son of GD comes to rescue these names of the messiah from the ovens, how can the messiah also be the son of GD? Does he rescue himself, or are we being told that the messiah was among his people, {that refuse to bow to the idol of flesh} when the christians of Europe used their ovens on the name of GD {YaHudaH}? Have the christians burned their own messiah? So the son of GD is not the messiah? The faith of Rome is wrong. The son of man denotes "born of a woman", like David is, and it is a term that is heavily used by Ezekiel. It does not mean messiah or {son of GD}, as all JEWish men are deemed to be. ..Michael [/B][/QUOTE]

The L-rd raised up Jesus by his own spirit to be the head of the body of believers(Hos.1.11, Mic.2.13, Eph.1.22, Col.1.18,1 Pet.2.7), in that, yes the Messiah saves himself. As far as the rest of your comment, as you pointed out - the kingdom is first possessed by evil ones, so there was a time of G-d leaving us to ourselves in order to find which ones were truly his(Isa.18.5-6, Deut.32.20), because those evil ones pretent not to be evil(Isa.14.13-14, 2 Cor.11.13-15). See Luke 22.53 with Amos 5.20 and 2 Thess.2.3-4-11-12; See also Isa.42.1 with John 9.39, Dan.7.26, Hos.10.4, John 12.48-31.

I do not have the best eyes, so I am hoping that I have not made mistakes that I have missed.

Glori

[Thummim]

We are two separate faiths with two separate understandings of the tanakh.

Glori writes;

You are correct that YHWAH was the power that the Angel of YHWH's presence conducted when delivering his children from Egypt. The same is true for the ultimate deliverence. Heb.2.9 says Jesus was made "a little lower than the angels" for the suffering of death". Overcoming death was the age old promise and the mission of the angel of G-d's presence, otherwise it would not have required that he first be born of a woman. So in the flesh Jesus was not an angel, but 2 Cor.5.19 says, YHWH was in Christ, reconcilling the world unto HIMSLEF.

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...First I want to say that sheol takes its toll from all people. We all still die. So "Jesus" didn't conquer death. This idea of yours, is an illusion. Death still awaits you and me. "Jesus" also was no angel of YHWH's. He didn't come as deliverer of the JEWish people, neither did they need him for shoring up their faith. "Jesus" is an idol fashened out of human flesh, that many of the worlds people worship. If "Jesus" had never been born, wouldn't the fate of all JEWs have been better? Why does the faith of christianity have to exist? Neither Hos. 1: 11 or Mi. 2: 13 have anything to do with "Jesus". The text of Micah should not be read without first reading Mi. 1: 1 which dates it. Neither should Hosea be read without first reading Hosea 1: 1. Context is very important in making an argument. In both cases Isaiah 44: 22 follows YHWH's decrees against Israel, and redeems Israel.

22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

23 Sing, O ye heavens; for YHWH hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for YHWH hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel. Isa. 44: 22, 23

...{note the paragraph marker. This redemption belongs to the time of Cyrus. It follows well after the troubles that Jacob has with the Assyrians and the Babylonians. None of these texts have anything to do with "Jesus".

Hosea 1: 6, 7 sets the time of these words as directed to Judah and Israel between 712 BCE and 586 BCE. So squeezing Jesus out of the text doesn't work. Judah is spared from the Assyrians, but Samaria isn't This is the answer given to Ahaz in Isaiah's seventh chapter. Israel will no longer be a people, but Judah will be saved {until Babylon} Hos. 1: 9 reads like Isa. 65: 15. But in both cases, Israel again becomes GD's people.

Glori writes;

The L-rd raised up Jesus by his own spirit to be the head of the body of believers(Hos.1.11, Mic.2.13, Eph.1.22, Col.1.18,1 Pet.2.7), in that, yes the Messiah saves himself.

...I'm confused here. I don't know what you are talking about. The NT's authors are free to write anything that they want to in their texts. But they are not free to rewrite the tanakh. Trying to squeeze "Jesus" into the old testament texts is questionable at best. The NT's authors can freely quote text, but it becomes obvious how in err they are, when you look up these texts and read them in their proper context. For example, how would the following text be squeezed into the time of "Jesus"

1 Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.

2 Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of YHWH'S hand double for all her sins.

3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of YHWH, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

...Mathew 3: 3 borrows this text to build upon, but how would it fit a time of peace, which doesn't fit the time of John the babtist or "Jesus"?

3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. Mat. 3: 3

...Comfort my people and tell them that their warfare is over? Have the Romans agreed to this? And can "Jesus" fit such a verse of text at all?

42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. {speaking to Jerusalem}

43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,

44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation. Lk. 19: 43, 44

...Is "Jesus" trying to annul the scripture that calls for peace? Isaiah's 40th chapter has nothing to do with the time of the Romans.

Glori writes;

"come unto me all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon on you and learn of me, for my yoke is easy and my burden is light".

...The burdon of "Jesus" is the Romans, who are about to distroy many of the JEWish people. Does "Jesus" bow to the slaughter? The NT is the book of the Roman faith. It isn't put together by the Roman church until after the conversion of Constantine. The words of the New Testament support a new faith and not an old one. Just circle the term, {the JEWs} in the book of the gospel of John, and you will see what I mean. It is between the new faith {christianity} and the old faith {the JEWs} that the battle rages. Both faiths interpret the tanakh differently. But the christian interpretation is so loose, that it is ludicrous. I am constantly having to correct christian assumptions of what the text of the tanakh is really about. Just try to connect "Jesus" to the tanakh, and I will show you what I am talking about. Very little will actually stick.

...Michael

[Glori]

Re: We are two separate faiths with two separate understandings of the tanakh.

Michael,

[QUOTE BY MICHAEL]...First I want to say that sheol takes its toll from all people. We all still die. So "Jesus" didn't conquer death. This idea of yours, is an illusion. Death still awaits you and me.[END QUOTE]

First and foremost, you do not have the power of death in your hands, so it isn't your call to say I have to die. If the concept is such and allusion, why are the men of science trying so hard to acheive it? They are even as we speak on the brink of discovering all the cures God promised(Isa.33.24), and the long life that God promised(Deut.11.21). God is greater than man! If I have enough faith to take hold of it through belief in Jesus Christ, then the proof is in the pudding isn't it.

(QUOTE BY MICHAEL]"Jesus" also was no angel of YHWH's. He didn't come as deliverer of the JEWish people, [END QUOTE]

I asked you what the name of the Angel of the L-rd's presence was, and since you don't know, how can you be so sure it isn't Jesus?

[QUOTE BY MICHAEL]neither did they need him for shoring up their faith.[END QUOTE]

That is an interesting statment coming from a man who has not received the promises that were made to obedient Jews. If I, a Gentile, through faith in Jesus Christ, take hold of the promises made to you, while you as an obedient Jew do not, then I will be living proof that the Jews do indeed need Jesus to shore up their faith.

[QUOTE BY MICHAEL] "Jesus" is an idol fashened out of human flesh, that many of the worlds people worship.[END QUOTE]

There are false Jesus'(2 Cor.11.4) and yes fashioned by the Romans, but that is not the true Jesus that is revealed through the whole word of God.

[QUOTE BY MICHAEL] If "Jesus" had never been born, wouldn't the fate of all JEWs have been better? [END QUOTE]

Michael, in the past your G-d gave your people power over all the nations that came against you, you need to figure out why that has changed, and stop using the misled Christians as an excuse for what happend to you.

[QUOTE BY MICHAEL]Why does the faith of christianity have to exist? [END QUOTE]

You ask as though it is just one faith, but it is many. See Luke 11.17-18 for the reason

[QUOTE BY MICHAEL]Neither Hos. 1: 11 or Mi. 2: 13 have anything to do with "Jesus".[END QUOTE]

I stated that Jesus is the head of the body of believers, Hos.1.10 refers to Gentiles becoming G-d's people, and verse 11 refers to the children of Judah. Jesus was born in the tribe of Judah, and is our adoptive Father; Hos.1.11 goes on to say we will unite with the children of Israel and appoint ONE HEAD'. Micah 2.13 says "their King shall pass before them, and the Lord on the head of them" . I was illustrating the prophecy about "the head" of the body of believers.

[QUOTE BY MICHAEL]The text of Micah should not be read without first reading Mi. 1: 1 which dates it. Neither should Hosea be read without first reading Hosea 1: 1. Context is very important in making an argument. In both cases Isaiah 44: 22 follows YHWH's decrees against Israel, and redeems Israel. [END QUOTE]

What you need to realize is that your G-d, the Author of scripture, is not governed by time, and that when he spoke via the spirit through chosen men, at what ever date in history that was, he was preparing the "book of life"(Ps.139.16) that he would later give the supply of the spirit for the understanding (Isa.29.11-12-18, 59.21). In the "Song of Moses" God says "Give ear O ye heavens, and I will speak, and hear O earth the words of my mouth. My doctrine shall drop as rain, my speech shall distill as dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, as showers upon the grass".

How will doctrine drop as rain? Isa.55.10-11 says God's word is like the rain and snow that falls to earth to water it, and make it grow, and so it is with God's word, it will not return to him void, but will accomplish all that he sent it to". Hos.6.1, God has promised to heal you, and you are not healed, so evidently the second and third day in verse 2 and 3 are not physical days. Hos. 6.3 goes on to say that "if we follow on to know the Lord, he will come to us as the rain". Now here you have both the doctrine of God and the Lord coming to us as the rain, and with that I will point out that John 1.1 says Jesus is "the word that was, and was with God". Where Hos 6.3 mentioned an early and latter rain, that would be a two part "doctrine", old and new testament.

[QUOTE BY MICHAEL]...
.For example, how would the following text be squeezed into the time of "Jesus"

1 Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.[END QUOTE]

John 14.26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your rememberance, whatsoever I have said unto you". John 7.38-39(Isa.66.12) "He who believes in me as the scripture sayeth, out of his belly will flow rivers of living water{but this spake he of the Spirit which they that believe on him should receive, for the Holy Ghost had not yet been given, because that Jesus had not yet been glorified".


[QUOTE BY MICHAEL]...Is "Jesus" trying to annul the scripture that calls for peace? Isaiah's 40th chapter has nothing to do with the time of the Romans. [END QUOTE]

In Mark8.15 Jesus warned to "beward of the leaven of Herod" and well as of the Pharasees, and John 14.27 "My peace I leave with you. my peace I give unto you; NOT as the world giveth". Did you apply Jer.8.15 to the expectation for a time of worldly peace?


I think that is enough for now, any way, duty calls.

Glori

[Thummim]

Vague answers.

Glori writes;

First and foremost, you do not have the power of death in your hands, so it isn't your call to say I have to die.

...I would be pleased if you could cheat the grave. As you imply, many have desired it, but their funerals persist in occuring.

Glori writes:

I asked you what the name of the Angel of the L-rd's presence was, and since you don't know, how can you be so sure it isn't Jesus?

...I didn't realize that you had asked me this question. I can answer it for you. His name is YaHudaH, the letters that YHWH's name is taken from. He literally bears the name of the tribe of David. Thats where the authority of the throne comes from.


20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. Ex. 23: 21, 22


24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted. Ps. 89: 24


6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, {YaHudaH} and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of YHWH of hosts will perform this. Isa. 9: 6, 7


Glori writes

There are false Jesus'(2 Cor.11.4) and yes fashioned by the Romans, but that is not the true Jesus that is revealed through the whole word of God.

...GD is not a man! If a man is called god, he is an idol of flesh. Idols can be made out of anything.

I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.

Glori writes;

Hos.1.10 refers to Gentiles becoming G-d's people

...No it doesn't, it speaks of Israel not being GD's people {vs. 6} {lo-ammi - not my people} again becoming the people of YHWH.


6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name {Lo-ruhamah - not excepted}: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.

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10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. Hos. 1: 10 KJV

The number of the people of Israel shall be like that of the sands of the sea, which cannot be measured or counted; and instead of being told, "you are not my people," they shall be called children of the living GD. JPS translation

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Glori writes;

What you need to realize is that your G-d, the Author of scripture, is not governed by time

...But men are governed by time. The time pertaining to the text is given as follows;

1 The word of YHWH that came unto Hosea, the son of Beeri, in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash, king of Israel.

...The author wants to keep you from being confused. His texts pertain to the dates given unless he says otherwise.

1 The word of YHWH that came to Micah the Morasthite in the days of Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, which he saw concerning Samaria and Jerusalem.

...These little headers are usually given prior to their following texts. You can see that Hosea and Micah cover the same time periods.

Glori writes;

Hos.6.1, God has promised to heal you, and you are not healed, so evidently the second and third day in verse 2 and 3 are not physical days. Hos. 6.3 goes on to say that "if we follow on to know the Lord, he will come to us as the rain". Now here you have both the doctrine of God and the Lord coming to us as the rain, and with that I will point out that John 1.1 says Jesus is "the word that was, and was with God". Where Hos 6.3 mentioned an early and latter rain, that would be a two part "doctrine", old and new testament.

4 O Ephraim, what shall I do unto thee? O Judah, what shall I do unto thee? for your goodness is as a morning cloud, and as the early dew {it goeth away}. = without rain Hos. 6: 4

...Why are you christians so afraid to read a whole paragraph or chapter at one time? The people that the text is addressed to is named. Much is being said, but you only want to read a single verse of text.

Glori writes;

1 Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.[END QUOTE]

...That isn't the end of my quote. What does the end of warfare mean to you? And what does "her iniquity is pardoned" mean?

1 Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.

2 Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of YHWH'S hand double for all her sins.

3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of YHWH, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

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3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. Mat. 3: 3 ???

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...Isaiah said which words are to be spoken. How do those words compare to what "Jesus" said? Does "Jesus" comply and comfort Jerusalem?

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41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, {of Jerusalem} and wept over it,

42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.

43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,

44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation. Lk. 19: 41 - 43

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...It seems that "Jesus" is not compliant to his Eloheems will. Does he even know what it is to be obedient? A little more research, and you will find that "Jesus" is a questionable entity.

Glori writes;

In Mark8.15 Jesus warned to "beward of the leaven of Herod" and well as of the Pharasees, and John 14.27 "My peace I leave with you. my peace I give unto you; NOT as the world giveth". Did you apply Jer.8.15 to the expectation for a time of worldly peace?

...The absence of warfare is peace. This is what follows the demise of Babylon. Jeremiah writes about Jerusalem being taken captive by Babylon and the surrounding land being left desolate. He even explains why in the 24th chapter. Please read it and stop trying to accuse a righteous people of their past sins. These sins were forgiven them long before "Jesus" even exists. Like so many christians, you ask that YaHudah {the JEWs} serve their sentence again and again. But these transgressions were forgiven all JEWs long ago.

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22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

23 Sing, O ye heavens; for YHWH hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for YHWH hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel. Isa. 44: 22, 23

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...If you paid attention to the dating, you might learn these things. This text is in the same paragraph that names Cyrus. {Isa. 44: 28} Cyrus is also named in the same paragraph of text that gives Israel an everlasting salvation, unto the end of the world. {read Isa. 45: 17 from verse one of the same paragraph}

....Michael

[Glori]

Michael,

The fact that you are set in what you believe - for the time (Rom.11.15), I am not going to answer your post point for point. I am just going to respond with;


If "God is not man" stood for all time, how is it that the Messiah is the one in Dan.7.13 that says "one LIKE the son of man"? If he is like a man, how will he dawn that likeness?

What will be the purpose of that likeness?

How long will he mantain that likeness?

If he is "like the son of man", how will you tell him from an imposter?


For G-d's timing, I notice that Genesis 1.14-19 shows our time did not begin until G-d's fourth day. If you apply that understanding to scripture, you will understand why all that is promised through Messiah could not be accomplished in a day of our time {Isa.66.8).

As far as your claim that it is a Christian characteristic to "divide the word of truth"(2 Tim.2.15), so far all Christians I have encountered share YOUR complaint... They cannot move beyond the face value of each passage to the message that is "hid from the wise, but revealed to the hearts of faith"(Isa.35.5).

One last thing, I do not accuse a righteous people of anything as you suggest. I am pointing out that all the promises that G-d made to his children, that being the spirit of strength and life (Ps.104.30, Ez.36.26, 37.14) was given in the form of Words from G-d (Deut.18.18) brought by Jesus (Jn.17.8, 6.63). The Spirit of strength(Matt.26.41, Isa.59.21) to walk in the statutes that G-d gave that always reaped the power to reign supreme, and thereby be returned to the previous life (Ez.36.11-14).

With that, why DOESN'T Israel have the power of God with them today like in the days of yore? If Jesus is a god invented by the Romans, why should that interfere with the true power? I can't follow that.

Always a pleasure

Glori

[Thummim]

Hashem is protection.

Glori writes;

If "God is not man" stood for all time, how is it that the Messiah is the one in Dan.7.13 that says "one LIKE the son of man"? If he is like a man, how will he dawn that likeness?

...The point is that the messiah is not GD. The one is not the other. One approaches the other. They are in two separate places. GD is not man or Messiah. Who would anoint him? Who would have the authority to anoint GD? Is there one who is higher than YHWH?

One like a human being
Came with the clouds of heaven;
He reached the ancient of Days
And was presented to him. {by whom in this dream?}
Dominion, glory, and Kingship were given to him;
All peoples and nations of every language must serve him;
His dominion is an everlasting dominion that shall not pass away.
and his kingship shall not be distroyed. Dan. 7: 13, 14 JPS

...This being the case, the dominion is still the property of an evil man. {in the dream} The evil one must have it before it can be inherited by the righteous man. If "Jesus" is that evil man, than a righteous man will supplant him as Ismael, Esau, Reuben, Manasseh and Saul were supplanted. What follows "Jesus" but an assault against the name of YHWH?

Glori writes;

For G-d's timing, I notice that Genesis 1.14-19 shows our time did not begin until G-d's fourth day. If you apply that understanding to scripture, you will understand why all that is promised through Messiah could not be accomplished in a day of our time {Isa.66.8).

Our own time only begins when we do. That would be the sixth day. Until that day, we cannot count a single day. What is accomplished occurs in the lifetimes of the people of Israel. It is not about the messiah. It is about Israel.

Glori writes;

With that, why DOESN'T Israel have the power of God with them today like in the days of yore? If Jesus is a god invented by the Romans, why should that interfere with the true power? I can't follow that.

...The strength of YHWH is found in his name. This name is what is being waited upon. When we learn the name, YHWH will be armed. Then justice can come. YHWH will be with us.

6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I. Isa. 52: 6 KJV

Assuredy, My people shall learn My name,
Assuredly [they shall learn] on that day
That I, the One who promised,
Am now at hand. Isa. 52: 6 JPS

65 And the Tirshatha said unto them, that they should not eat of the most holy things, till there stood up a priest with Urim and Thummim. Ezra 2: 63, Neh. 7: 65

...Thummim is the plural of Tome which means "to complete". It "completes" YHWH's name. A letter is withheld from the sacred name. When the knowledge of Hashem is lost, so is the right arm of YHWH to protect his people.

1 YHWH hear thee in the day of trouble; the name of the God of Jacob defend thee;

2 Send thee help from the sanctuary, and strengthen thee out of Zion; Ps. 20: 1, 2

When YaHudaH left Babylon, some of the knowledge that they had once possessed no longer accompanied them. Their temple was destroyed and very many of their priests were killed. Building a house for the name of GD, when it is no longer understood, is not going to yeild the presence of GD's name. {the Shekina} These dark clouds are the name of his people that gather around him. It is the name of YaHudaH {praise YaH}. His people inhabit his "Praises". Calling up YHWH's glory {his name} requires that "the name" is learned all over again. This is ancient knowledge which doesn't work with the name of "Jesus".

20 If we have forgotten the name of our God, or stretched out our hands to a strange god;

21 Shall not God search this out? for he knoweth the secrets of the heart. Ps. 44: 20, 21

....Michael

[Glori]

Michael.

How do you purpose to learn God's name?

[Thummim]

Praise his name = "Praise YaH".

Glori writes;

How do you purpose to learn God's name?

...Do you mean how do I propose to learn the name of YHWH? I already know it. I've little time now with the sabboth coming up, to teach you Hashem. But I can set a few verses in order for you to think about.

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5 But unto the place which YHWH your God shall choose out of all your tribes to put his name there, even unto his habitation shall ye seek, and thither thou shalt come: Deut 12: 5

...Does this verse of text represent a choice on YHWH's part to choose a tribe in which to place his name? If so, we can look for a match. Let us go with the tribe of David. This is the tribe of the throne of Israel.


8 Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee.

9 Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?

10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

11 Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:

12 His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk. Gen. 49: 8 - 12

Now of praise we read;

3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel. Ps. 22: 22

22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee. Ps. 22: 22

35 And she conceived again, and bare a son: and she said, Now will I praise YHWH: therefore she called his name Judah; and left bearing.

10 According to thy name, O God, so is thy praise unto the ends of the earth: thy right hand is full of righteousness.

...Where do the letters YHWH come from? The name of Davids tribe is YaHudaH. Four of the five letters of GD's name come from the name of YaHudaH {Yahudah}. They are even in the same order. Talk about inhabiting praises.

...Now we also have a more direct confession of the name of Hashem.

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6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of YHWH of hosts will perform this. Isa. 9: 6, 7

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...Does the name of GD set upon the throne of David.

24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted. Ps. 89: 24

27 And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Nu. 6: 27

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O YHWH our Adonai, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens. Ps. 8: 1

...What evidence is there of this? Are the heavens somehow corrupt? Can you plant the earth before you create the heavens? The author did. When GD shows his glory to Moses, he "proclaims his name". {see Ex. 34: 5, 6} When the glory of YHWH rises upon his peoples in Isaiah 60: 1, 2, It is his name that is seen upon them. Though it is the sun that brings forth fruit, {Deut 33: 14} In the creation account the fruit of the earth is brought forth without the sun and without seasons. Does the author of Genesis, know that this will not work? What the author is doing, is placing the glory of YHWH's name a little higher than the glory of the heavens.

...The name of YHWH is a terrible weapon to take into battle with oneself.

10 And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of YHWH; and they shall be afraid of thee. Deut. 28: 10

...When one knows the name of Hashem, he reads a very different book than all others do. Praise GD!

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11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:

12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.

...Praise YHWH with understanding! {ps. 47: 7}

9 I will praise thee for ever, because thou hast done it: and I will wait on thy name; for it is good before thy saints.

Halleluyah, = Praise GD!

....Michael

[Glori]

Michael,

I also observe Sabbath Will you tell me somthing about the name "Joshuah"?

[Thummim]

Joshua

...Joshua, the name first occurs in Exodus chapter 17: 9 and is the one who made battle with Amalek, and prevailed in battle when Moses held up his hands, as they clutched the rod of GD. There is no prehistory of this name prior to its use here. Amalek is to be an enemy having a death sentence attached to all his seed.

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8 Then came Amalek, and fought with Israel in Rephidim.

9 And Moses said unto Joshua, Choose us out men, and go out, fight with Amalek: tomorrow I will stand on the top of the hill with the rod of God in mine hand.

10 So Joshua did as Moses had said to him, and fought with Amalek: and Moses, Aaron, and Hur went up to the top of the hill.

11 And it came to pass, when Moses held up his hand, that Israel prevailed: and when he let down his hand, Amalek prevailed.

12 But Moses' hands were heavy; and they took a stone, and put it under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun.

13 And Joshua discomfited Amalek and his people with the edge of the sword.

14 And YHWH said unto Moses, Write this for a memorial in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.

15 And Moses built an altar, and called the name of it Jehovah-nissi:

16 For he said, Because YHWH hath sworn that YHWH will have war with Amalek from generation to generation. Ex. 17: 8 - 16

...The name of Joshua {Yehowshua} means, {YHWH Saved}. Chapter seventeen of Exodus is where the children of Israel chided Moses about whether YHWH brought them out into the desert to die of thirst. The author then uses "Joshua" for the first time. The name of Joshua, must also be an answer to Israel. YHWH will save their lives.

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Then YHWH said to Moses, "Inscribe in this document as a reminder, and read it aloud to Joshua: I will utterly blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven!" And Moses built an altar and named it Adonai-nissi. {YHWH is my banner} He said, "it means, 'hand upon the throne of YHWH!' YHWH will be at war with Amalek throughout the ages." Ex. 17: 14 - 16, JPS {JEWish publication society} "the tanakh"

...Perhaps the context of the first use of the name will enlighten you as to the relevance of the name of Joshua.

....Shabbat Shalom, Michael

[Glori]

Re: Joshua

Michael,


[QUOTE]Then YHWH said to Moses, "Inscribe in this document as a reminder, and read it aloud to Joshua: I will utterly blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven!" And Moses built an altar and named it Adonai-nissi. {YHWH is my banner} He said, "it means, 'hand upon the throne of YHWH!' YHWH will be at war with Amalek throughout the ages." Ex. 17: 14 - 16, JPS {JEWish publication society} "the tanakh"[END QUOTE]


Thank you for that input, but I am asking what the name Joshua actually means. Forinstance, "Caleb the son of Jephunneh" as I understand it, means "A dog for whom the way is prepared". Is that right.

....Shabbat Shalom

[Thummim]

YHWH Saved!

...Didn't I answer???

Joshua means, YHWH Saved. {after Ex., vs. 16} You must have missed it.

Yephunneh means he will be prepared.

Caleb means to yelp, hence a dog or by euphemism, a male prostitute. - Strongs, 3311, 3312.

....Michael