Historical Christian Antisemitism

[simchat_torah]

Read on only if
you have a strong stomach.

Here are some quotes that will burn you:
(the numbers are the years)
I have only highlighted a FEW of the things.
Beware, if you read beyond this point you may be disgusted.....


325: The Council of Nicea decided to separate the celebration of Easter
from the Jewish Passover. They stated: "For it is unbecoming beyond
measure that on this holiest of festivals we should follow the customs of
the Jews. Henceforth let us have nothing in common with this odious
people..."


367 - 376: St. Hilary of Poitiers referred to Jews as a perverse people
who God has cursed forever. St. Ephroem refers to synagogues as brothels.


380: The bishop of Milan was responsible for the burning of a synagogue;
he referred to it as
"an act pleasing to God.


415: St.Augustine wrote "The true image of the Hebrew is Judas Iscariot,
who sells the Lord for silver. The Jew can never understand the Scriptures
and forever will bear the guilt for the death of Jesus."


418: St.Jerome, who created the Vulgate translation of the Bible wrote of
a synagogue:

"If you call it a brothel, a den of vice, the Devil's refuge, Satan's
fortress, a place to deprave the soul, an abyss of every conceivable
disaster or whatever you will, you are still saying less than it
deserves."


694: The 17th Church Council of Toledo, Spain defined Jews as the serfs of
the prince. This was based, in part, on the beliefs by Chrysostom, Origen,
Jerome, and other Church Fathers that God punished the Jews with perpetual
slavery because of their responsibility for the execution of
Jesus.


1078: The Synod of Gerona forced Jews to pay church taxes


1096: The First Crusade was launched in this year. Although the prime goal
of the crusades was to liberate Jerusalem from the Muslims, Jews were a
second target.
As the soldiers passed through Europe on the way to the Holy Land, large
numbers of Jews were challenged: "Christ-killers, embrace the Cross or
die!"
12,000 Jews in the Rhine Valley alone were killed in the first Crusade.
This behavior continued for 8 additional crusades until the 9th in 1272.


1099: The Crusaders forced all of the Jews of Jerusalem into a central
synagogue and set it on fire. Those who tried to escape were forced back
into the burning building.


1205: Pope Innocent III wrote to the archbishops of Sens and Paris that
"the Jews, by their own guilt, are consigned to perpetual servitude
because they crucified the Lord...As slaves rejected by God, in whose
death they wickedly conspire,
they shall by the effect of this very action, recognize themselves as the
slaves of those whom Christ's death set free..." thus began the slavery of
Jewish people to Catholics in the 13th century.


1215: The Fourth Lateran Council approved canon laws requiring that "Jews
and Muslims shall wear a special dress." They also had to wear a badge in
the form of a ring. This was to enable them to be easily distinguished
from Christians. This practice later spread to other countries
(hmmm.... sounds familiar, eh nazis?)


1227: The Synod of Narbonne required Jews to wear an oval badge. This
requirement was reinstalled during the 1930's by Hitler, who changed the
oval badge to a Star of David.


1347 +: Ships from the Far East carried rats into Mediterranean ports. The
rats carried the Black Death. At first, fleas spread the disease from the
rats to humans.
As the plague worsened, the germs spread from human to human. In five
years, the death toll had reached 25 million. England took 2 centuries for
its population levels to recover from the plague. People looked around for
someone to blame.
They noted that a smaller percentage of Jews than Christians caught the
disease. This was undoubtedly due to the Jewish sanitary and dietary laws,
which had been preserved from Old Testament times. Rumors circulated that
Satan was protecting the Jews and that they were paying back the Devil by
poisoning wells used by Christians. The solution was to torture, murder
and burn the Jews.

In Bavaria...12,000 Jews...perished; in the small town of Erfurt...3,000;

Rue Brule...2,000 Jews; near Tours, an immense trench was dug, filled with
blazing
wood and in a single day 160 Jews were burned." In Strausberg 2,000 Jews
were burned.
In Maintz 6,000 were killed...; in Worms 400..."
12,000 Jews were executed in Toledo.
(the list goes on and on and on... sad isn't it)


This is the last one....

1543: Martin Luther, distressed by the reluctance of Jews to convert to
Christianity wrote "On the Jews and their lies, On Shem Hamphoras" :
"What then shall we Christians do with this damned, rejected race of Jews?

First, their synagogues or churches should be set on fire,...

Secondly, their homes should likewise be broken down and destroyed...
They ought to be put under one roof or in a stable, like Gypsies.

Thirdly, they should be deprived of their prayer books and Talmuds in
which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught.

Fourthly, their rabbis must be forbidden under threat of death to teach
any more...

Fifthly, passport and traveling privileges should be absolutely forbidden
to the Jews...

Sixthly, they ought to be stopped from usury. All their cash and valuables
of silver and gold ought to be taken from them and put aside for safe
keeping...

Remember,
Simchat Torah always!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
again I say rejoice


-Japheth.

[Thummim]

Who is a christian?

...Japheth, if I decide not to call a "Jesus-Yeshua" based faiths "christianity", what shall I then call them it? Names are very important. Christianity is the prefered tag for those who espouse the doctrine of the NT. This is how most "Jesus" believers refer to themselves. If you choose not to be called a christian, what would you like to be called to denote your faith, {which is supported by the text of the NT?} I suppose that the NT's readers can all pick and choose through individual verses of text, driven by the need to single out the more significant verses on which to build their faith. I do not want to refer to you as a christian if you prefer otherwise. I am curious as to what part of the NT that you reject and how you allow yourself to distinguish the honorable portions from the words that you deem as benieth the honor of others. I realize that we must all allow ourselves the room to interpret the author's intent. {no matter what the book is} The fact that words and sentences do not cross languages smoothly forces this need upon us. I would like to distinguish your faith from mine. The post that you just made suggests that we have some common ground to share. The things that distinguish our faiths on my part is my inability to except that the author gave his Eloheem a name without thought or purpose as to why he chose it, or that it is racial {of genes} to be JEWish, or that there is any real argument to a racially pure JEWish people to be made from the tanakh {except in the case of priests}. Abraham fathered Ishmael through an Egyptian woman, {Gen. 16: 1} Judah married a Canaanite, {Gen. 38: 2} {Nu. 12: 1} Moses an Ethiopian, all suggesting the lack of a racial componant to Abrahams seed {his posterity}. There are other arguments against the JEWish people being a race of people such as Benjamin being cut off from taking a wife from the woman of Israel by vow. {Judg. 21: 7} Perhaps you are confusing race with posterity. Race is a genetic argument, while posterity needn't be.

...I do not have a messiah that fails to be a blessing to his people. {why would I need one} Death and oppression followed "Jesus" for the JEWish people. Do you realize that it is laughably easy to find a blessing for the JEWish people accompanying the {thought as} messianic texts. When you place most messianic text in context, you find that the JEWish people are not even in their own land most of the time, but about to head towards it. This precludes "Jesus" from being the messiah of these verses of text. Peace is also a significant part of messianic text. Like I believe concerning the name of GD, the messiah also has a reason for existing. It isn't to forgive sin which YHWH already does {Isa. 44: 22}. Neither is there any offering for intentional sin {Nu. 15: 30} Neither does the paschal lamb provide any sin coverage. (seen in the offerings required with the passover lamb). {Nu. 28: 16 - 22} Christianity took so many liberties with the text of the tanakh in writing the collected works of the NT, that it is hard to place the need for a {"Jesus"- type} messiah anywhere. Perhaps you are looking for a replacement people for the swallowed up tribes of Israel. This is a faith of many. But I think that Judah will give birth to his brethren by himself. {Nu. 48: 1} When you contrast this with what is written in Eze. 37: 22, we are left with what the JEWish people are now. {one people with one appointed head}. So what then is the function of "Jesus"? To my faith, the JEWish people are without the strength of their Eloheems name until this knowledge of Hashem is returned to us. I have found enough evidence to ask if we really do bear the name of our Eloheem.

...All of these thoughts contribute a part to my faith. How to contrast it with your faith though, requires me to have a better understanding of what your faith really is. Perhaps you are less of a christian in doctrine. Perhaps your faith is something else altogether. But how can a "Jesus" believing person who lends his faith to the NT, not be a {........}? Do you understand my confusion?

....Michael

[simchat_torah]

"Do you understand my confusion?"

No, but I sense that you are making accusations. I do see how you are desperately trying to seperate. If we are made out to be wrong, then the choice you made some years ago would then be justified. However, I am not that easily swayed. I suppose you are yet to see how true that is...

However, before I continue, I would ask that you would stop letting your single discussion continue to taint all of the threads at this board. You want to discuss whether the Jews are actually a race? Fine, there are already two threads where that is currently being discussed.

I will now address your "confusion".

Yes, I believe Y'shua is HaMoshiach ben Yosef to the Diaspora. What does this mean? Does it mean that I am christian? Does it mean that I have rejected Judaism??? Are those who hold to Y'shua rejecting Judaism itself?

In ancient times, the original believers in this "messiah of sorts" were not cast out of their Jewish communities, nor were they looked upon as rejecting Judaism.

The prime shining example would be Ya'acov, or better known as James, or yet, Ya'acov HaTzaddik... James the Just (or righteous). He was the primary leader of this "messianic" movement within Judaism... known as the Netzarim (the earliest sect of Jewish believers in Y'shua). He was the leader in the city of Jerusalem.

Ya'acov HaTzaddik is written about quite extensively in Josephus' writings. He was well known in the entire region, and was respected more than any other Rabbinical scholar of his day, according to Josephus.
Yet this man believed Y'shua to be Moshiach.

Ok ok ok... so how about today?
What of those who accept him as Moshiach today? Are they rejecting Judaism? According to Dennis Prager, probably the most widely read Jewish author (possibly apart from Jacob Neusner), the messianics who hold to a monotheistic G-d, and not a triune g-dhead, are still within the bounds of Judaism.

Even Jacob Neusner has made such statements, along with Fluesser, and many many more.

Ok, so what is the dividing line between christianity and Judaism?

I would agree with Dennis Prager that the most glaring differnece is a believe in a trinity. However, I would go a step father and point to many other obvious differences...
Christianity accepts paganism as valid forms of worhsip, has a triune g-dhead, rejects the validity of Torah, rejects the Holy Days of HaShem and the Torah, and holds to antisemetic doctrine (as is pointed out in the first post in this thread).

Jewish Believers (as opposed to what the term 'messianic' has come to mean today) reject all forms of paganism, hold to a monotheistic view of HaShem, embrace the Torah, and see the Jewish people as a unique race that HaShem has blessed.

This is only the beginning of the differences between "christianity" and a Jewish Believer.

Now, as to the idea that merely holding to a particular messiah, albiet viewed as a false messiah by the majority of Jews, would denounce one's Jewishness, I would point to the Lubavitchers, to those who followed Bar Kochba, and many many others. Just because one follows the idea of a particular person being the messiah, and that messiah being rejected by the majority of Judaism, does not negate one's Jewishness.

I have only begun...
Japheth.

[Thummim]

Two different faiths. {I do not mean to imply that you are not JEWish}

...Japheth writes;

I would agree with Dennis Prager that the most glaring differnece is a believe in a trinity.

...Trinity is combining father, son and holy ghost into one as I have heard tell. I assume that you do not believe in a trinity. Would you define who than is {"Jesus" - Yeshua} to you of these three? would I be right in assuming that he is only a son of YHWH? Would that involve a virgin birth? I know that all Israel {hos. 1: 10, because YHWH is expressed as a father to Israel in other text} and all those who sit on the throne of Judah can make this claim of sonship. Is the claim of "Jesus" more than that of any other JEW?

...I concede that messiahs come and go. Most of these leave little blessing to denote for the people of Israel. {"Jesus" included} On christian antisemitism, Does he who leads a faith have any guilt to bear for having created it? Is "Jesus", the faith of christianity, or is he the father of another faith? Can christian antisemitism be placed at the feet of "Jesus"? Is Shabti Tzevi responsible for what he creates in claiming himself messiah, 1666 {or allowing this belief to florish} and for what are the consequences that follows his faith? Can we separate our faiths by denoting our messiahs?

...Japheth writes;

In ancient times, the original believers in this "messiah of sorts" were not cast out of their Jewish communities, nor were they looked upon as rejecting Judaism.

...I have read that the relationship between those who excepted "Jesus" as messiah and most other JEWs had very strained relations with their communities. After all, they were teaching that all JEWs who did not except their messiah {"Jesus"}were lost souls. What is the term {the JEWs} refering to when used in the NT? It does not always accompany unstrained relations. Paul does not always find a willing crowd to recieve him.

...Josephus also describes the slaughter of his own people. Messiah comes, the people are slaughtered? Ben Joseph {not a literal character in the writings of the tanakh} dies for what reason. The suffering messiah dies to promote some blessing to his people as I've been told. But 2000 years is a long time to await that blessing. Malachai says that Elijah comes before the day of YHWH which I take to be the day that YHWH reconciles the suffering of his people. Isn't this what should follow the messiah harolded by Elijah? {can this really be John the Babtist's calling?} I am concerned with Isa. 40: 1 - 3 being used to denote the arrival of Jesus by the author of Mat. 3: 3. Obviously this author is very wrong. For Isa. 40: 1, 2 says to declare peace, the end of war for the people of Jerusalem. But "Jesus" brings no peace but declares the end of Jerusalem through war. What is he told to say in Isa. 40: 2, when he speaks to Jerusalem? Are not the people of Jerusalem vindicated of their sin in this text, as well? Should war follow these words?

...There is a pierced servant who dies in battle delivering Jerusalem, believed to be messianic text refering to "Jesus", by most christians, which is spoken of in Zechariah's twelfth chapter. But where is the victory of Jerusalem? We must not omit the seventh and eighth verses of Zechariah's twelfth chapter, as they apply to this pierced servant that is mourned as an only son. All of this underlies my question, "who is Jesus" {to you}? I still do not understand your faith. You can call him {"Jesus"}, ben Joseph, the suffering messiah {Who delivers a people?}. {ben David, the King messiah follows in the faith}

...I do not think that "Judaism" really existed in the time of "Jesus". I think that, like what christianity would become would await hundreds of more years and the church of Rome, Judiasm awaited its builders to do some work to replace the temple and priesthood.

...JEWs like to be distinguished from christians. The attempt that you make to validate christianity as a part of Judaism {if that is what you are attempting to do} do not unite these faiths in any way. One still is either a JEW or a {christian something ???} and not both. While I doubt that JEWishness can be proven by race, one can be JEWish by name, family {no matter how genetically diverse from Abraham}, and by faith. When is christianity, not christianity? I give the NT to its believers.

....Michael

[simchat_torah]

"While I doubt that JEWishness can be proven by race, one can be JEWish by name, family {no matter how genetically diverse from Abraham}, and by faith."

Again, I implore you to allow that particular discussion to remain within the bounds of the threads it has already tainted. This is a different topic, a different discussion... thank you.

"The attempt that you make to validate christianity as a part of Judaism {if that is what you are attempting to do} do not unite these faiths in any way. One still is either a JEW or a {christian something ???} and not both."

I do not make that attempt, so please do not make those charges. And I also agree with your second statement, that one is either christian or Jewish... that I have made blatantly obvious from my last post. There does exist a paradoxical contrast between Judaism and christianity. This must be observed, and none of what applies to what is contrary to Judaism applies to my beliefs. My beliefs remain within the boundaries of Judaism.

plain and simple.


"I do not think that "Judaism" really existed in the time of "Jesus". "

I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

"I have read that the relationship between those who excepted "Jesus" as messiah and most other JEWs had very strained relations with their communities. After all, they were teaching that all JEWs who did not except their messiah {"Jesus"}were lost souls."

It depends on the specific time frame you are referring to, and to which "Jewish believers" you are referring to. To be quite honest, the "Netzarim", or the original sect of Jewish Believers in Y'shua, was still in existence within Judaism all the way until the 13th century.

" Ben Joseph {not a literal character in the writings of the tanakh} dies for what reason."

Well, in order to specifically address this in full, refer to the thread: What was Y'shua's sacrafice???
at:

http://www.tzaddikim.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=72

Suffice it to say here that Moshiach ben Yosef was to destroy the certificate of divorce between the two houses (Judah and Israel), but the promise of peace was not included with Moshiach ben Yosef, but rather with Moshaich ben Dovid. One needs to study Judaism in order to see the differences between the two "types" of Messiahs.
There is another thread that addresses this doctrine in Judaism:
Dual Moshiach
found at:

http://www.tzaddikim.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=63

There you will find the idea that Moshiach ben Yosef was not to bring peace, so your charges of "war" following Y'shua are meaningless.

"Isn't this what should follow the messiah harolded by Elijah? {can this really be John the Babtist's calling?}"

If one studies the historical figure of Yochanan the Immerser (john the baptist) you will find that he had left the community at
Qumran as a lone prophet. His message was that of Teshuvah to the common people. He had a following, or a set of disciples. These disciples were those who had left the community of Qumran for various reasons, but primarily because of their rejection of a seperate Temple.

"would I be right in assuming that he is only a son of YHWH? Would that involve a virgin birth?"

Yes, son of Elohim. However, we are all sons of Elohim. Now, also remember, the "virgin birth" could have fell within halachic terms, as a virgin could also refer to a woman who was past the age of birthing. The argument can be made quite strong that Mary was older, by examining the relationship between her and her cousin Elizabeth. Considering Elizabeth is quite old, and looking at how Elizabeth and Mary relate to one another, the argument could be made that the are of equal (or similar) ages.

Do I accept this?
I do not know. It has yet to be explored fully. Halachically speaking, Mary would have been a "virgin" (in Hebrew terminology and Jewish idioms) by being past the age of birth ability.

Finally I address this statement...
"Does he who leads a faith have any guilt to bear for having created it? Is "Jesus", the faith of christianity, or is he the father of another faith? Can christian antisemitism be placed at the feet of "Jesus"?"

Y'shua did not create christianity. No, christianity came many years after Y'shua. It was birthed before Constantine, and fully developed by him. It was a pagan adaptation of the one truth. Y'shua did not come to start a new religion. He was a Jew, lived as a Jew, and taught Jewish principles (specifically Torah observance). His claim to Messiah was completely within the bounds of Judaism, and should be recognized as such.

The later doctrines of trinity, paganism, anti-torah, ect... should all find their proper owner with the later religion of Christianity who's founder is Constantine (among others), NOT YESHUA!

Shalom 2 all,
Japheth.

[Thummim]

Context!

Japheth writes.

Again, I implore you to allow that particular discussion to remain within the bounds of the threads it has already tainted. This is a different topic, a different discussion... thank you.

...Antisemitism and racism do not go together in a single discussion? Only in your mind!

...Its good to see that we agree that christianity and Judiasm are separate faiths.

My comment; "I do not think that "Judaism" really existed in the time of "Jesus". "

Your comment; "I have no idea what you are trying to say here".

...My comment; Judiasm is what the faith of JEWs becomes with the loss of the temple and the priesthood. It's a faith that accommodates the diaspora. It didn't exist as now practiced, in the time of "Jesus".

Japheth writes;

but the promise of peace was not included with Moshiach ben Yosef, but rather with Moshaich ben Dovid.

...The paragraph markers in the text of the tanakh indicate that you are wrong. Verse 9 of Zechariah's 9th chapter has the paragraph marker and does not have another in the same chapter.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

10 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.

11 As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.

12 Turn you to the strong hold, ye prisoners of hope: even to day do I declare that I will render double unto thee;

13 When I have bent Judah for me, filled the bow with Ephraim, and raised up thy sons, O Zion, against thy sons, O Greece, and made thee as the sword of a mighty man.

14 And YHWH shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the Lord GOD shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south.

15 YHWH of hosts shall defend them; and they shall devour, and subdue with sling stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, and as the corners of the altar.

16 And YHWH their God shall save them in that day as the flock of his people: for they shall be as the stones of a crown, lifted up as an ensign upon his land.

17 For how great is his goodness, and how great is his beauty! corn shall make the young men cheerful, and new wine the maids.

...Obviously these words concerning a king riding an ass cannot be spoken about "Jesus". For victory belongs to both Judah and Ephraim at this time. {being united in battle like bow and arrow} Rome wouldn't fit into this time. If we read on into the next chapter of Zech, we read that Assyria still exists at this time and that Egypt still has a scepter. This would fit the time of Alexander very well. Then greece is named in Zech. 9: 13. It seems that our lowly king must exist before "Jesus". Greece and Egypt are major powers at this time.

...Going on to Zechariah's twelfth chapter, we again find that "Jesus" cannot be the pierced servant because of the victory that Judah has at this time. Be aware of paragraphs again. Chapter twelve is a single paragraph where the victory of Judah is again told. {vs. 8} The pierced servant is mourned because he is felled by a wound that he recieves in battle. {like Josiah is wounded in the valley of Megiddo, and is heavily mourned.} II Chr. 35: 23 - 25

The ben Joseph/ ben David approach doesn't hold up here. Neither can "Jesus" fit this time at all.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Japheth writes;

There you will find the idea that Moshiach ben Yosef was not to bring peace, so your charges of "war" following Y'shua are meaningless.

...Peace follows victory with the tribe of Judah possessing Jerusalem. This theme is followed throughout the latter chapters of Zechariah. Chapter 14 has all Judah being as holy as priests and drinking out of holy vessels. This is a time of peace. What follows "Jesus" has nothing to do with the times and events that Zechariah writes about.

....Michael