It's all True -- If you only knew!

[Titus]

I'm quite frustrated with some other forums because they don't let you breath neither say what's in your head. That is, You may freely speak as long as you do not speak with an accent. I say, [to The Ignorant], This:

You cowards! You walking trees! The Gods will reward you by placing you in charge of a library on some tiny spinning speck of stardust near the edge of the universe -- and you'll love it too!

As for me, I [fear] not what is more but only what is less. And if the Father in heaven should allow certain Minds even in this life to peek into the incomprehensibly Gigantic vastness of the Material and Spiritual Creations, Then what is that to them?

Hello good people, And thank you for allowing me to take part in this reality.

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Titus, the Spirit Weaver

[Matthew23]

I was waiting to let someone else to greet you, since I'm not a member of the church that sponsors this site, but it's been quite a while now...

WELCOME TO THE FORUM!

matt

[Valid Name]

Gnosis!

Greetings Titus -

I am sorry that I did not pay attention to your post sooner! I saw it that day and once it left the 'cookies' I forgot about it.

I read a thread of yours over at Theologyforums.com with great interest. I saw that you were interesting in gnosis.

I watched a history channel show that told of the history of the Bible, and early Christians. It told of a group of people called 'gnostics', but didn't really talk much about them, other than they had an epsitle that they called the gospel of thomas.

I am curious what you know about them? I am very curious, becuase I heard they were persecuted to the point of death, by other christians no less.

Peace, and Welcome!
Valid Name

[Titus]

Hello Matt, and Valid Name, And thanks for the greeting. I haven't been here for a while but I must respond. Looking at my initial post here I see it must have been another frustrating day for me to write that. Anyway...

Valid Name, Yes I'm a Gnostic as you know, yes a heretic they say because I don't accept certain Christian doctrines. The Gnostics were there right from the start, extremely passionate followers of the Lord. Disciples always ready to embrace new truths. Yes they were persecuted but only by the early Catholic church. Here is why, a brief outline of the differences in beliefs:

-- No fall of man. Sin entered the world upon creation. As soon as something exists it is automatically by design inferior to God.

-- No Doctrine of Atonement. Every being is responsible for his own sin. Sin is forgiven by repenting to the Father.

-- Christ was sent to LIVE. It is the image of his perfect Spirit that saves, not his blood.

-- Christ was sent to TEACH about the Heavenly Father and His Love and Forgiveness.

-- Christ was sent to SHOW us that we LIVE after death. The Resurrection was the demonstration of this.

-- Christ suffered because he LIVED as a human. That is truly the sacrifice.

-- Christ was born of a natural mother and father. Only so can he Prove to humanity that normal humans resurrect.

-- Christ was sent to show us that the individual chooses the gift of salvation, that God does not dictate who is saved but this is a free will choice of the individual. God offers the gift freely, men choose it, it is done.

-- Salvation begins firstly with knowledge (Gnosis), but this knowledge is not secret neither is it "I know something", but it is "I know the Divine, I know God." Then, one places faith in that certain knowledge of God.

And many other things but I won't get boring.

Thanks Matt and Valid

PS. If you'd like to discuss anything here I'd be delighted.

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Titus, the Spirit Weaver

[Valid Name]

Grow in Knowledge

Greetings Titus!

What I know about gnositics is very little. According to the info I have recieved, they believed that the earth was created by a different god than Elohim. Now to tell you the truth, much of what I hear I do not believe about them. The name automatically is labeled heretical, so I am sure that the ideas are not given a fair shot either.

I must say that your first four points intrege me very much. Please feel free to speak your mind about any of them. In fact Titus, I do believe there might be a few threads around here that are already speaking of these ideas. If you can find one you like, feel free to bring it back up, or if not, begin your own.

Again, Welcome to the Forums.

Peace,
Valid Name

[Robin]

Don't miss The Way!

Hi Titus,

You bring up some very interesting things and, as Brad pointed out, some of these things have been stated in other threads on this forum.

Many of your points "seem" true, in part, but what is missing is the planting of the LORD, the Seed of the Woman, the Quickening Spirit. If we look from the outside at the life of Jesus, we can even without spiritual eyes observe the things you mentioned. But The Way, The Truth, and The LIFE are spiritually discerned.

Love,
Robin

[Titus]

Greetings all, And thanks for your posts.

Valid: You said: "they believed that the earth was created by a different god than Elohim"

Yes, the Father of ALL is the Source and Center of all Mind, Spirit, energy, matter, and Reality. However, the Father does not Create. Father is Giver, not taker. Father gives to His Sons to Create Beings and "things". Just as the two Angels destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, so too do Angels move objects to their places. All this is achieved through the Hierarchy which is: Infinite Father, Sons, Angels, Men.

You said: "The name automatically is labeled heretical"

Most definitely. Gnostics have always interpreted the Scriptures using Mind and Spirit, and never logic or authority. Father is Infinite, His Word is Profoundly deep. God is not a dictator. If the Scriptures were clear and simple they would have faded away long ago. But a different understanding is not heresy as I see it but opportunity to Perceive God's true Greatness and Goodness.

Robin, You said: "but what is missing is the planting of the LORD, the Seed of the Woman, the Quickening Spirit."

It is actually all there. The Garden events are merely stories for those who take it literally. To me they express profound Truths. These truths are not about how man "disobeyed" God, but rather, they express the Reality which is exactly the Divine Plan for mankind. For instance, the taking of Woman from Man represents our separation from Father. Adam is the Christ, we are the Woman. The Christ will present his Bride (not the church but the church member) to the Father. This Unity is a most important concept. It happens not after death, no, that's too late -- it happens right here in this life. The Kingdom of Heaven begins within and continues toward the Infinite.

Please also note that Jesus of Nazareth is indeed the central figure of Salvation. He is Savior, Redeemer, Liberator, Teacher. He is the Light we follow into the realm of the Father. He saves not from a wrathful God but he opens our eyes and Minds.

You see, this is the classical interpretation:

"Adam and Eve ate the fruit and they died."

No, but this:

"Adam and Eve ate the fruit and it opened their Minds!"

The Divine Plan is all about getting to Father. All things desire to be Perfect. Everything from the atom to the whale desires Perfection. All Creation thirsts to be Perfect like Father.

I would also like to say that most Gnostics do accept the Bible as is, however, the interpretation is sometimes radically different, Also, as you may know, Gnostics do not maintain Dogma neither strict Doctrines of any kind. I maintain that Christ liberated us from authority. He showed us not what to think but how to think:

Luke 11:52
"Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering."

Jeremiah 29:13
You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.

Peace to all.

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Titus, the Spirit Weaver

[Titus]

I may also say a few more things about salvation..

It could be seen that the blood of the Lamb saves, but only in the sense that I also would give my life instantly for my daughter. Yet, am I strong enough to give it for a friend? Perhaps, only perhaps. But Christ gave himself freely. In that sense, yes. But such demonstration of love is not something that he did to "save people." No, that is absurd.

Such doctrines may easily be put into question with the following:

Luke 7:50
Jesus said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

Where is the cross? Where is the blood?

Matthew 26:27
Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. ***This*** is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

These are not verses to be addressed using "theology" but they are signals and opportunities that allow me to have hope even for those who do not believe that my Lord is the God of the Universe. For this I am often disliked. And that is why I must remain loyal to God even when it makes me a heretic.

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Titus, the Spirit Weaver

[Titus]

Arwen said: "Some things are certain."

Yes, dear, you are right, And when they find themselves on the Boat, sailing into the Father's Light, they will remember your words.

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Titus, the Spirit Weaver

[Valid Name]

Gnostic View

Greetings Titus!

I do like your idea about Adam and Eve being Us and Elohim. I would of course have to do a little looking into this, however that is not something that I had considered when seeing that Scripture.

What you say however does have profound effects when a reader is trained to understand the spiritual. How women and men are surely depicts the church and Elohim. Elohim plants a seed and Woman gives Birth. These are definite phyisical shadows of the spiritual! Perhaps how man and woman fight over nothing is one too! Although, I still can't figure out what she is complaining about !

Surely Paul and the Apostles looked into the spiritual interpretation of scripture as well. In Galations Paul points to Physical events in The Law that are of Spiritual Allegories. As well in Corinthians Paul speaks of a vail that is over the face of the Jews in the Reading of Scriptures:

2 Corinthians 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

You said that gnostics do not believe in strict doctrine or dogmas, and that Messiah has liberated us from all authority. Surely he is the Authority correct? But would you agree that being able to see and know the scriptures properly would hold one to a strict doctrine?

I do agree what you say about Messiah not teaching us what but how to think (You know, I might have to think about that for a bit - He is the Teacher and much more). Granted he did teach many truths that are undeniable, but I also view him as a great math teacher!

When confronted with a new problem in math, often the way to find the answer is to know the formula! He has taught us the formula to find what answers we desire, and how to check our answers!

Peace,
Valid Name

[Titus]

Greetings Valid!

1 Corinthians 2:12
We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words... ... But we have the Mind of Christ.

Yes Christ (and only Christ) is my authority. What he says goes. Most often this comes from the New Testament, sometimes other scripture, Yet sometimes I hear His Voice! Please allow me to post some scripture:

Matthew 3:17
And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

John 5:25
I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.

John 10:27
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

And most importantly..

John 3:29
The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend who attends the bridegroom waits and listens for him, and is full of joy when he hears the bridegroom's voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete.

Please note this important concept of "parables" and other deep things of God concerning Scripture: When the Son of Man is speaking of earthly events then they may be representing Heavenly things, And, when he speaks of those things which temporarily take your Mind to heavenly events then they may be things which occur on earth here and now. It is this interlude between heavens and earth that the Gnostic seeks in words

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Titus, the Spirit Weaver