Noah and Avraham shook hands (maybe)

[chris]

Did you know that Noah was alive during the time of Avraham? He died about 42 years b4 Isaac was born. Yep. I did a study on the begats from Adam to Jacob. I can give the specifics if you wish.

[hyssop]

Chris,

Welcome to the forum. We are happy to have you here.

Yes, I would be interested in the specifics. I have been interested in seeing whether or not one could follow the genealogies from Adam to Moses. I believe that I tried it a long time ago, and couldn't come up with a definitive date from Creation to the Law.

The current Jewish year is supposedly 5762 (from creation). I've wondered how that was calculated. Any insight that you may have would be appreciated.

[chris]

Shalom hyssop! I'm glad to be here.

I tried to follow down the line, but I had to stop at Jacob, b/c the Scriptures did not mention His age at his 12 childrens' births, and many after that as well. So w/out the ages, I could not finish the timeline. I do not know how that date (5672) was derived. Here are the specifics:

Adam [930]
130 (130) - Seth [1042]
235 (105) - Enos [1140]
325 (90) - Cainan [1235]
395 (70) - Mahalaleel [1290]
460 (65) - Jared [1422]
622 (162) - Enoch [1609]
687 (65) - Methuselah [1656]
874 (187) - Lamech [1651]
1056 (182) - Noah [2006]
1558 (502) - Shem [2158]
1656 (600) - Flood
1658 (100) - Arphaxad [2096]
1693 (35) - Salah [2126]
1723 (30) - Eber [2187]
1757 (34) - Peleg [1996]
1787 (30) - Reu [2026]
1819 (32) - Serug [2049]
1849 (30) - Nahor [1997]
1878 (29) - Terah [2083]
1948 (70) - Avram [2075]
2048 (100) - Isaac [2228]
2108 (60) - Jacob

The first number is the year since Adam's fall, and that person's year of birth. The number in () is how old that person's father was when he had him. For instance, Noah was 502 when he had Shem, and Shem was 100 when he had Arphaxad. The () for the Flood indicate how old Noah was when the flood came. The [] indicate the date at which that person died. For instance, Serug died in the year (from Adam's fall) 2049.

So all you have to do to find out if one person was alive at the time of another, is look at the date they died (in []'s) and then look at the the other person's year of birth (w/out ()'s or []'s). For instance, we know that Noah was alive in Avraham's day is b/c Noah's year of death (2006) is after Avraham's year of birth (1948).

[hyssop]

chris,

This information is great! Now, perhaps one could find other scriptures that indicate the later dates. I know that somewhere it is written how long the children of Israel were slaves in Egypt, and how long they wandered in the wilderness, etc.

I wonder, if one started piecing all of the dates/timeframes together, how many "holes" there would be from Jacob to 0 BCE.

Thanks again,

[chris]

Thank you hyssop! I didn't think about the 400 years spent in Egypt! I will go through and see if there is more info in the Scriptures.

I am in the middle of a study of every begat in the Scriptures, a family-tree from Adam if you will. It is very long though... (very long!)

[hyssop]

Matthew 1 also has Yashua's lineage from Abraham . . .

[chris]

Gracias

I managed to find Jacob's death age last night, he was 147. Through some pretty tedious searching, I managed to continue the link to Joseph. I am hoping to link the 400 years, Moshe's age, and time spent in the wilderness. (!)

Here is the continuation of the timeline:

2108 (60) Jacob [2255]
2199 (91) Joseph [2309]

[ObservantGoyim]

Originally posted by hyssop
chris,

This information is great! Now, perhaps one could find other scriptures that indicate the later dates. I know that somewhere it is written how long the children of Israel were slaves in Egypt, and how long they wandered in the wilderness, etc.

I wonder, if one started piecing all of the dates/timeframes together, how many "holes" there would be from Jacob to 0 BCE.

Thanks again,

Brothers,

I am posting a website later this fall that has much research about the time from Adam to Jesus -- including answering many of the so-called contradictions. Here is a foretasts:

______________________________________
The Times and the Seasons of the Bible
An Examination of the Years, Months and Days from the Bible

The following material is organized as follows: Events specifically recorded in scripture to have happened on certain days, months and years are placed in a chronological order. Each event is given along with the particular verse or verses where the information (about the passage of time) is located in the Bible. If the verse is located under the subheading “Verse”, then it is from an orderly chronological flow that is found. If the date is derived from a verse that is not found in an orderly flow, then the verse(s) used to determine the passage of time is (are) place in parenthesis. For example, the year of Enoch’s translation is placed in time sequence according to when the Bible says it happened, even though the verse used to establish the year is found earlier in scripture than the events surrounding it.

Items that could be considered problematic, i.e. the time of Abram’s sojourn being 400 or 430 years depending on where found, are footnoted with an explanation of how the differing dates were reconciled. ‘AC’ means ‘years after creation’, which is the reference point for this study.

Verses Event Year/Day
Gen. 1:3-26 Creation Year One
Tishri 1st-6th
(tradition)

Gen. 2:21-25 Woman Created Tishri 8th (tradition)

Gen. 3 Fall of Man Tishri 10th (tradition)
1st Day of Atonement

Gen. 5:3 Adam begat Seth 130 AC
(Adam 130 yrs. old)

Gen. 5:6 Seth begat Enos 235 AC
(Seth 105 yrs. old)

Gen. 5:9 Enos begat Cainan 325 AC
(Enos 90 yrs. old)

Gen. 5:12 Cainan begat Mahalaleel 395 AC
(Cainan 70 yrs. old)

Gen. 5:15 Mahalaleel begat Jared 460 AC
(Mahalaleel 65 yrs. old)

Gen. 5:18 Jared begat Enoch 622 AC
(Jared 162 yrs. old)

Gen. 5:21 Enoch begat Methuselah 685 AC
(Enoch 65 yrs. old)

Gen. 5:25 Methuselah begat Lamech 874 AC
(Methuselah 187 yrs. old)

Adam dies at 930 yrs. old 930 AC
(Genesis 5:5)

Enoch translated at 365 yrs. old 987 AC
(Genesis 5:22)

Seth dies at 912 yrs. old 1042 AC
(Genesis 5:8)

Gen. 5:28-29 Lamech begat Noah 1056 AC
(Lamech 183 yrs. old)

Enos dies at 905 yrs. old 1140 AC
(Genesis 5:11)

Cainan dies at 910 yrs. old 1235 AC
(Genesis 5:14)

Mahalaleel dies at 895 yrs. old 1290 AC
(Genesis 5:16)

Jared dies at 962 yrs. old 1422 AC
(Genesis 5:19)

Gen. 5:32 Noah beget Ham, Shem & Japeth 1556 AC
(Noah 500 yrs. old)

Lamech dies at 777 yrs. old 1651 AC
(Genesis 5:31)

Methuselah dies at 969 yrs. old
(Genesis 5:27) 1656 AC
Methuselah's death is in the first 40 days of the year 1656 AC

Gen. 7:4 (cp) i. Noah and family enter the Ark Marchesvan 10, 1656
Gen. 7:11 ii. God shuts the door, rain begins Marchesvan 17, 1656
Gen. 7:12 iii. Rain ends, earth covered in water Kislev 27, 1656
Gen. 8:3 iv. Water prevails 150 days Iyyar 28, 1656
(Yom Yerushalem)
Gen. 8:4 v. Ark rests on mountains of Ararat Nisan 17, 1656
Gen. 8:5 vi. Mountains seen Tammuz 1, 1656
Gen. 8:6 vii. Window opened Av 11, 1656
Gen. 8:7-8 viii. Sent raven and dove, dove returns Av 18, 1656
Gen. 8:10-11 ix. Sent dove, dove returns
with an olive branch Av 25, 1656
Gen. 8:12 x. Sent dove, dove doesn't return Elul 2, 1656
Gen. 8:13 xi. Noah exits the Ark Tishri 1, 1657
--------------- -------------------- ----------------------
Tishri 1 is New Years Day on the secular (political) calendar of the Jews. It was the traditional day of 'New Beginnings' before the first Passover. On this day God created light, which was the first day of creation. Also, this is the traditional rendering of the day that Abram and Lot left Ur of the Chaldees when God made His first covenant with Abram (Genesis 12:1-8). Tishri 1 is still celebrated yearly with the Feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hashanah) to remember these New Beginnings before the Law. Once the Nation of Israel was delivered from Egypt, Nisan 1st became the new year of the feast calendar and the time of New Beginnings.
This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you (Exodus 12:2) From that time on, Nisan 1 became the time of New Beginnings:
Events of Nisan 1:
1. Tabernacle erected Exodus 40:2
2. Temple sanctified 2 Chronicles 29:17
3. Return from captivity Ezra 7:9
4. Separation from strange wives Ezra 10:17
5. Latter Rain falls Joel 2:23
6. Messiah cleanses the future Temple
after His return Ezekiel 45:18

-------------- ------------------ --------------------------

Gen. 8:14 xii. Earth dried Marchesvan 27, 1657

Gen. 11:10 Shem begat Arphaxad -- sometime during 1656 (on the Ark! - Shem 100 yrs. old)

Gen. 11:12 Arphaxad begat Salah 1691 AC
(Arphaxad 35 yrs. old)

Gen. 11:14 Salah begat Eber 1721 AC
(Salah 30 yrs. old)
(Eber is from the same generation as Nimrod and the tower of Babel.)
Continents divide (see next item) 1754 AC
(The continents divide when Peleg's mother is pregnant with him. Peleg means ‘divided’.)
Gen. 11:16 Eber begat Peleg 1755 AC
(Eber 34 yrs. old)



Gen. 11:18 Peleg begat Reu 1785 AC
(Peleg 30 yrs. old)


Gen. 11:20 Reu begat Serug 1817 AC
(Reu 32 yrs. old)

Gen. 11:22 Serug begat Nahor 1847 AC
(Serug 30 yrs. old)

Gen. 11:24 Nahor begat Terah 1876 AC
(Nahor 29 yrs. old)

Gen. 11:26 Terah begat Abram, Nahor and Haran 1946 AC
(Terah 70 yrs. old)

Traditional Haran begat Lot 1991 AC

Peleg dies at 239 yrs. old 1994 AC
(Genesis 11:19)

Nahor the Elder (Terah's Father) 1995 AC
dies at 148 yrs. old
(Genesis 11:25)

Noah dies at 950 yrs. old 2006 AC
(Genesis 9:28-29)

Gen. 12:1-8 Abram and Lot depart Haran when
Abram is 75 yrs. old. God's first
covenant with Abram. 2021 AC

Reu dies at 239 yrs. old 2024 AC
(Genesis 11:21)

Traditional Abram & Lot separate
(Genesis 13:1-13) 2026 AC

God makes His covenant of promise sometime
to sometime between Abram. Abram between 2026 AC
becomes the Father of the Seed. & 2031 AC

Gen. 16:16 Abram begat Ishmael 2032 AC
(Abram 86 yrs. old)

Gen. 17:1-4 Circumcision instituted,
New Names Given (Abraham/Sarah) 2045 AC


Tradition Sodom & Gomorrah destroyed
(Lot 54 yrs old) (Genesis 18-19) 2045 AC

Gen. 21:1-8 Isaac born
(Abraham 100/Sarah 90) 2046 AC

Serug dies at 230 yrs old
(Genesis 11:23) 2046 AC

Gen. 21:12 Isaac weaned at age 5. God tells
Abraham that "in Isaac shall your
seed be called" (this time begins
the 400 year count that Abraham's 2051 AC
seed sojourns in a land not their
own).
__________________________________________________ _

There are two allegedly conflicting year counts associated with Abraham. While some have called these counts a contradiction, the times are clarified as follows:


How the 400 years are reckoned (time that Abraham's seed sojourned (Gen. 15:13))

Isaac confirmed as the seed of promise 2051 AC
Jacob born 2106 AC
Moses born 2371 AC
Exodus (Moses 80) 2451 AC (400 years)

How the 430 years are reckoned from 'the promise to the time of the law" (Galatians 3:14-17)

Abraham given the promise at 75 yrs old in Canaan 2021 AC
Law given at Sinai 2451 AC (430 years)
________________________________________

Ishmael kicked out at 19 yrs. old
(Genesis 21:4-16) 2051 AC

Tradition Isaac 17 yrs. old when Abraham tested 2063 AC
(Joseph also 17 when sold into slavery)

Terah dies at 205 yrs. old
(Genesis 11:32) 2081 AC

Sarah dies at 127 yrs. old (Genesis 23:1) 2083 AC

Gen. 25:20 Isaac marries at 40 yrs. old 2086 AC

Tradition Abraham remarries 2090 AC


Arphaxad dies at 438 yrs. old
(Genesis 11:13) 2094 AC

Gen. 25:26 Jacob & Esau born
(Isaac is 60 yrs. old) 2106 AC

Gen. 25:7 Abraham dies at 175 yrs. old 2121 AC

Salah dies at 433 yrs. old
(Genesis 11:15) 2124 AC

Gen. 26:34 Esau marries at 40 yrs. old 2146 AC
(Esau defies his parents and marries
a ‘heathen’ woman)

Shem dies at 600 yrs. old
(Genesis 11:11) 2156 AC

Gen. 25:17 Ishmael dies at 136 yrs. old
(also see Gen 35:28-29) 2169 AC

[ObservantGoyim]

Jacob 'steals' Esau's blessing between 2169 AC
& 2183 AC

Jacob sent to live with Laban
(Genesis 28 – 29) 2183 AC

Jacob marries Leah and Rachel 2183 AC

Tradition They immediately begin to have children,
and all eleven sons of Jacob service are
born during his service to Laban. The
sons of Jacob were born, year by year
in the following order:
1st year of service Leah bears Reuben 2184 AC
2nd year of service Leah bears Simeon 2185 AC
3rd year of service Leah bears Levi 2186 AC
4th year of service Leah bears Judah 2187 AC
6th year of service Bilhah bears Dan (for Rachel) 2189 AC
7th year of service Bilhah bears Naphtali (for Rachel) 2190 AC
9th year of service Zilpah bears Gad (for Leah) 2192 AC
10th year of service Zilpah bears Asher (for Leah) 2193 AC
12th year of service Leah bears Issachar 2195 AC
13th year of service Leah bears Zebulon 2196 AC
14th year of service Rachel bears Joseph 2197 AC
____________________________________________
The Jews look upon Joseph as a type of the Messiah for two reasons: First, Joseph was born to Rachel, whom Jacob loved. Second, he was born in the fourteenth and last year of Jacob’s service to Laban, which was the time of Jacob’s release from captivity. Rachel is a type of Israel, according to the Jews.
____________________________________________
Gen. 30:25-43 Jacob tells Laban his time of
servitude is done, but Laban gets
Joseph to stay on 6 more years
six yrs. – 20 total [Gen. 31:28]. 2197 AC

Tradition Benjamin born at the end of the
six years. 2203 AC
______________________________________________
Benjamin’s birth must have been around this time in order for him to be about the same age as Joseph. We know that they are approximately the same age, because Joseph is 39 years old when the rest of the family move to Egypt, and Benjamin has 10 sons by that time (Genesis 46:21).
________________________________________________
Gen. 31 Jacob and family flees from Laban after the bith of Benjamin
__________________________________________
In this passage we find the first typology of Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, and the Sukkot. At the beginning of the New Year (at Rosh Hashanah), Jacob takes his wives, servants, sons, cattle and stuff and flees from the land of his sojourn ‘like a thief in the night’. This is a typology of the rapture where Jesus comes like a thief in the night to take His bride.
Laban is told after three days that Jacob is gone, and saddles up his men to pursue Jacob. After seven days (so this would be the tenth day: 3+7=10), Laban catches up to Jacob and the two men who are at odds with one another are reconciled (somewhat). This event happens on the day of Atonement (Yom Kippur), and that night is when Jacob wrestles with the Mighty Angel (Gen. 32). When the day of Yom Kippur is fully come, Jacob reconciles fully with his brother Esau (Gen. 33:1-15).
After this reconciliation with Esau, Jacob goes to Succoth and dwells in Sukkot (Tabernacles). The city of Succoth is on the east of Jordan, across from Jericho, where Israel would make their triumphal entry into the promised land. This is also the place where John the Baptist would immerse people for repentance 1710 years later.
He lived in these tabernacles for a short time, and then came to Shalem (Gen. 33:18). Shalem is a transliteration of Shalom, or peace. The word ‘city’ in verse 18 is the Hebrew word
‘Yairh’, so Jacob came to Yairhshalom (or Jerusalem) and bought a parcel of land and built an altar unto God (this is the same spot that Adam, Abel, Noah and Abram had built altars in their days. It is the exact location of the Holy of Holies when the Temple of God was constructed.
__________________________________________
Gen. 37:2 Joseph, at the age of 17, sold into
slavery in the land of Egypt. 2214 AC

Gen. 41:1 While in prison, Joseph interprets
the dreams of Pharaoh’s servants.
Joseph is 28 yrs. old at this time
(compare to Gen. 41:46) 2225 AC

Gen. 35:28-29 Isaac dies at 180 yrs. old 2226 AC

Gen. 41:46 Joseph stands before Pharaoh at
30 yrs. old. The 7 years of plenty
begin. 2227 AC

Gen. 41:50-52 Joseph’s sons, Manasseh and Ephraim between 2227
are born during the years of plenty. & 2233 AC

Gen. 41:53 The years of famine begin 2234 AC

Gen. 42-45 Jacob sends his sons to Egypt to
purchase grain after his harvest fails
each year. This indicates that Joseph
revealed himself to his brothers in the
second year of famine. 2235-2236 AC

Gen. 47:28 Jacob, his sons and their families move
to Egypt after the second year of famine
(in Jacob’s 130th year) 2236 AC

Jacob dies at 147 yrs. old
(Genesis 47:28) 2253 AC

Gen. 50:22 Joseph dies at 110 yrs. old 2307 AC

Ex. 6:16 Levi dies at 137 yrs. old 2323 AC
____________________________________________
At the time of Levi’s death, the seed of Abraham had sojourned in a land that was not their own for 272 years. God promised that Abraham’s seed would sojourn for 400 years, and that “the nation that enslaves them” will be judged by God. God did not say they would be slaves for 400 years, but that they would be enslaved by a nation at the end of their sojourn. (Genesis 15:13-16)
God also promised that “in the fourth generation, they shall come into Canaan” again. Joseph was sold into slavery (Genesis 37:28) and he was of the same generation as Levi. So then, the nation of Israel would look for their deliverer to come from the fourth generation. These are the generations of Levi: 1. Levi 2. Kohath 3. Amram 4. Aaron/Moses
____________________________________________

Ex. 7:67 Aaron born 2368 AC
__________________________________
There are 64 years between the death of Joseph, and the birth of Moses. If you read the text carefully, you can see that there was a new Pharaoh between the births of Aaron and Moses. When their mother gave birth to Aaron, there was no requirement to kill the newborn male children, but when Moses was born, there was. This indicates that the “new king which knew not Joseph” (Exodus 1:8) became Pharaoh between their births. This would also be consistent with the idea that ‘who knew not Joseph”, with the passage of 2 to 3 generations of Pharaohs between Joseph’s death and Moses’ birth.
___________________________________
Moses born 2371 AC

Approximate Kohath (Aaron/Moses grandfather)
dies at 133 yrs. old (Ex. 6:18) 2404 AC

Acts 7:23-24 Moses kills an Egyptian, and flees to
Midian. Here, he marries Zipporah. 2411 AC

Approximate Amram (Aaron/Moses father)
dies at 137 yrs. old. 2442 AC

Exodus 3 & 4 Moses receives his call, meets Aaron
and the elders of Israel, and go up to
confront Pharaoh . 2451 AC
__________________________________________________ __
This is the second typology of the fall feast days: Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur and Sukkot. Moses took his flock to the back side of the desert (this is a type of Rosh Hashanah, where God leads his people to set themselves apart for a short time of preparation for the Day of Atonement). He was called up to the burning bush where God spoke to him on the type of the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur). Then, Moses was told to take up his family and go up to Egypt (where he met Aaron and the others dwelling in tents – Sukkot – in the plain of Goshen.

Also -- consider this: This was a new Pharaoh, different then the one that had sought to kill Moses after he killed the Egyptian (compare Exodus 2:15 to Exodus 4:19).
______________________________________________

Tradition The plagues begin on Tishre 24th after
the fall feast days, and last about six
months. The plagues are poured out as
against Egypt’s gods (Num 33:6) 2451 AC
_________________________________________

Plague Which god of Egypt Other title of the god
Bloody Water Hapi – god of the Nile The Strength of Egypt
Frogs Heget – goddess of childbirth

Lice Sekhmet – goddess of insects
Flies Beelzebub – lord of the dung heap (andor Set – god of destruction)
Cattle Hathor – goddess of the dance (aka goddess of drunkenness)
Boils Thoth – god of medicine (aka the god of 'writing' or ‘the books’)
Hail & Fire Nephtys – lady of the sky (aka the protector from evil)
Locusts Isis – lady of the green fields (aka goddess of the harvest or the goddess of fertility)
Darkness Ra – the sun god (aka god of fertility)
Death of Firstborn Pharaoh – the man god

__________________________________________
Ex. 12 v.3 Israel bring in the lambs for days Sabbath
of examination. Nisan 10th, 2451 AC

v.6 The Lamb is killed ‘between the Wednesday
evenings’ (during the day of the 14th) Nisan 14th, 2451 AC

v.7-10 The Lamb is eaten early in the night. Thursday
The death angel comes at midnight. Nisan 15th, 2451 AC

v.31 Pharaoh calls and expels Israel from (same night)
the land of Egypt. Israel spends the
first three days and nights in tents
(Succoth). This could not refer to the
city of Succoth on the east of Jordan.

[ObservantGoyim]

comments? critiques? complaints? Criticisms? ANYTHING!?!??!!!

does this look like something anyone would be interested in once the site is up, or am i spinning my wheels (well over 700 hours of work/study so far)

[tonyshaw]

to: ObservantGoyim

*if I offend in any way, I apologize upfront, and let me know so I will not repeat - thanks*


I am a Baptist-Christian trying to become a Messianic-Christian (if that makes any sense to you).

That is, I was raised Baptist, and was told that the OT is historical, but not relavent for today. I believe that God had given me the desire to question this, and want to incorporate His Holidays as written in the OT. This lead to my awarness of Messianic Jews and the wealth of knowledge and wisdom Jews as a people possess.

I am always ready to learn, but since I only had been taught NT and only some OT, and NO Jewish connection of any kind, I am wallowing in a sea of information that I am now finding.

Currently, I am collecting and absorbing as much info as I can, and SLOWLY I understand - SLOWLY!

I have copied everything you have posted, and if you ever get a website up, let me know the address so I can visit it.

Obviously I am not going to be a contemporary to you, which is what I believe you are looking for. I am simply a "newbie" who is far away from the "deep stuff" - which a lot of stuff on this site and on theologyforums is: deep. However, by reviewing these postings, I can at least glean some further learning from them.

If I can't fully appreciate your work as a contemporary could, I can at least thank you! The concept of a Jewish calendar based on the beginning of creation was new to me, yet it fascinated me. If I'm correct, the celebration of creation's "birthday" is coming up. I think this is "totally cool!" There are many other things involved in this holiday which I'm still researching and learning about.

A dateline from the day of creation to today is a cool concept. I would guess that Jesus's return would be numerical - i.e. year 7000? But, since no-one is to know the exact time, it could stand to reason that God would see to it that no-one could correctly and precisely calibrate such a calendar.


Incidentally, I could use a calendar to hang on the wall that had the months I'm used to (Jan-Dec) with the Jewish calendar on it as well. I could reference this as I study the Biblical Holidays. Do you know where on the web I could send a money order to, and they would mail me such a calendar?

Thanks again!
(This site is a little slow, isn't it? Is it being advertised on other sites? No-one will visit if they don't know about it. I think it's a cool site, and more people need to be on it. If Someone hadn't mentioned this site to me on the theologyforum site, I never would have know to visit this site.)

[ObservantGoyim]

Originally posted by tonyshaw

I am a Baptist-Christian trying to become a Messianic-Christian (if that makes any sense to you).
----------------------------------------
I totally understand, that is my original heritage - was saved
at a baptist youth camp in 1981
------------------------------------------
I believe that God had given me the desire to question this, and want to incorporate His Holidays as written in the OT. This lead to my awarness of Messianic Jews and the wealth of knowledge and wisdom Jews as a people possess.
----------------------------------------
I beleive that God has placed within many hearts the desire
tp return to the roots of our covenant. Several years ago
I studied the history of the church from the late first century
through modern times (specifically in relationship to the
churches of Revelation) -- and found that the revivals of the
since the beginning of the Protestant revolution have each
restored to the body of Christ the things lost in times past.
They have been restored in a reverse order from how they
were lost -- the last being restored first. The first major theme
that was lost to the church was it's Jewish roots near the
middle/later part of the second century. That is what started
down the road to studying the Jewish roots of Christianity.

It also really bothered me every time I would read Romans
it says that the Jews have an advantage in EVERY WAY,
becuase they had the oracles of God given to them (the
word translated oracles is 'logion', which means 'spoken,
unwritten utterances'. Much of the lost understanding about
God is found in the Oral Traditions of the Jews (like the


I am always ready to learn, but since I only had been taught NT and only some OT, and NO Jewish connection of any kind, I am wallowing in a sea of information that I am now finding.

Currently, I am collecting and absorbing as much info as I can, and SLOWLY I understand - SLOWLY!

I have copied everything you have posted, and if you ever get a website up, let me know the address so I can visit it.

Obviously I am not going to be a contemporary to you, which is what I believe you are looking for. I am simply a "newbie" who is far away from the "deep stuff" - which a lot of stuff on this site and on theologyforums is: deep. However, by reviewing these postings, I can at least glean some further learning from them.

If I can't fully appreciate your work as a contemporary could, I can at least thank you! The concept of a Jewish calendar based on the beginning of creation was new to me, yet it fascinated me. If I'm correct, the celebration of creation's "birthday" is coming up. I think this is "totally cool!" There are many other things involved in this holiday which I'm still researching and learning about.

A dateline from the day of creation to today is a cool concept. I would guess that Jesus's return would be numerical - i.e. year 7000? But, since no-one is to know the exact time, it could stand to reason that God would see to it that no-one could correctly and precisely calibrate such a calendar.


Incidentally, I could use a calendar to hang on the wall that had the months I'm used to (Jan-Dec) with the Jewish calendar on it as well. I could reference this as I study the Biblical Holidays. Do you know where on the web I could send a money order to, and they would mail me such a calendar?

Thanks again!
(This site is a little slow, isn't it? Is it being advertised on other sites? No-one will visit if they don't know about it. I think it's a cool site, and more people need to be on it. If Someone hadn't mentioned this site to me on the theologyforum site, I never would have know to visit this site.) [/B]

[ObservantGoyim]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tonyshaw

I am a Baptist-Christian trying to become a Messianic-Christian (if that makes any sense to you).
----------------------------------------
I totally understand, that is my original heritage - was saved
at a baptist youth camp in 1981
------------------------------------------
I believe that God had given me the desire to question this, and want to incorporate His Holidays as written in the OT. This lead to my awarness of Messianic Jews and the wealth of knowledge and wisdom Jews as a people possess.
----------------------------------------
I beleive that God has placed within many hearts the desire
tp return to the roots of our covenant. Several years ago
I studied the history of the church from the late first century
through modern times (specifically in relationship to the
churches of Revelation) -- and found that the revivals of the
since the beginning of the Protestant revolution have each
restored to the body of Christ the things lost in times past.
They have been restored in a reverse order from how they
were lost -- the last being restored first. The first major theme
that was lost to the church was it's Jewish roots near the
middle/later part of the second century. That is what started
down the road to studying the Jewish roots of Christianity.

It also really bothered me every time I would read Romans
it says that the Jews have an advantage in EVERY WAY,
becuase they had the oracles of God given to them (the
word translated oracles is 'logion', which means 'spoken,
unwritten utterances'. Much of the lost understanding about
God is found in the Oral Traditions of the Jews (like the
Mishna) (the passage where Paul said the Jews had every
advantage is found in Roman 3:1-2)
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I am always ready to learn, but since I only had been taught NT and only some OT, and NO Jewish connection of any kind, I am wallowing in a sea of information that I am now finding.
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Totally understood -- when I started down this road in the
late 80s, there were not any sites like this, and the path
was not well recieved by the brethren. But there is more
understanding and acceptance now
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I have copied everything you have posted, and if you ever get a website up, let me know the address so I can visit it.
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wilco
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Obviously I am not going to be a contemporary to you, which is what I believe you are looking for. I am simply a "newbie" who is far away from the "deep stuff" - which a lot of stuff on this site and on theologyforums is: deep. However, by reviewing these postings, I can at least glean some further learning from them.
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that is the way we all come to know the LORD, one step at
a time, earnestly seeking His face. Don't be overwhelmed,
because the LORD is doing a quick work, and will give you all
the understanding you need to bolster your faith in these
times in which we live
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The concept of a Jewish calendar based on the beginning of creation was new to me, yet it fascinated me. If I'm correct, the celebration of creation's "birthday" is coming up. I think this is "totally cool!"
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yep, the Appointment called "Rosh Hashanah" is coming up in
just a few weeks - celebrated on September 6th at sundown (it falls on Shabbat this year). It is known as the Feast of Trumpets
to most of the church.
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A dateline from the day of creation to today is a cool concept. I would guess that Jesus's return would be numerical - i.e. year 7000? But, since no-one is to know the exact time, it could stand to reason that God would see to it that no-one could correctly and precisely calibrate such a calendar.
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That is what i have been working on - and it is nearly completed.
Actually, the year we are looking for is the year 6000 (God worked
for 6 days, and rested on the 7th -- the years 6001 to 7000 are
the day of rest). This is what the early church fathers also
beleived - that Jesus would return in our time!! From the writings
of Barnabas in the first century to the writings of Methodius and
Lactantius in the early fourth century. As to your comment about
no one knowing the exact time, that may be true, but we are told
by Paul that we would know 'the times and the seasons' of Jesus
return, and that 'we are not in darkness that the day would
surprise us like a theif'!! We are supposed to know, pretty much
the times and the seasons of the LORD - that is why He gave
us the appointments each year, as a rehearsal for certain things.
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Incidentally, I could use a calendar to hang on the wall that had the months I'm used to (Jan-Dec) with the Jewish calendar on it as well. I could reference this as I study the Biblical Holidays. Do you know where on the web I could send a money order to, and they would mail me such a calendar?
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http://www.thegalileeexperience.com/calendars/calendars.htm

has the calanders that we hang on the wall -- we have our own
that we make (my fanily) with the emphasis on the Calander of
God, but the ones that Galilee Experience makes are set up to
follow our calander with the Days and Feasts appointed by the
LORD plainly shown.
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Thanks again!
(This site is a little slow, isn't it? Is it being advertised on other sites? No-one will visit if they don't know about it. I think it's a cool site, and more people need to be on it. If Someone hadn't mentioned this site to me on the theologyforum site, I never would have know to visit this site.)
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It is a little slow, but such is the way of many Christian sites,
due to the cost of webhosting. Grace and peace, my brother.
You can email me, if you have any questions.

[tonyshaw]

To: ObservantGoyim

Thank you for your reply, and THANKS for the site - I checked it out and will definitely get one if not both.

By "slow" I wasn't refering to the service (which is just fine in my opinion) I was simply refering to how often people visit this site. My apologies for the confusion. Surely one could "pass the word" to 'churches' who might be interested in the site. That should get a LOT of people on board.

Your reference to 'oracles' intrigued me, and I will have to refer to my Greek concordance to further study that idea.

And thank you for your offer to email you questions. If I get TOTALLY stuck somewhere, I will definitely take advantage of that offer.

Would like to talk further, but I have a hundred things to get done on my day off.

Thanks again, and I'll keep checking out this site!